News as follows.
NASA Mars rock findings?
Tuesday NASA revealed that the Curiosity Rover has found indications that ancient Mars was once able to support. All though this was significantly less interesting than many hoped, it should be remembered that science is inherently cautious and with something as important with the confirmation of extraterrestrial life babysteps are the best we can expect! Read NASA’s summary of the results through the link on the shownotes.
South African UFO Flap
Gert Jordaan, director of UFO Research of South Africa, reports a late February spike in UFO sightings near Cape Town. The story has been picked up by news services around the world and you will find a link to a Washington Times article in the shownotes. You’ll also find a link to the UFO Research of South Africa websites which has been reporting sightings almost daily on its blog.
Meanwhile, Canada No Longer Investigates UFO Sightings
According to a CBC News article, documents obtained through the Access to Information Act (the Canadian equivalent of FOIA) suggest that the government no longer investigates UFO sightings. Instead, they pass cases along to a civilian researcher named Chris Rutkowski. He, in turn, reports that by the time he is done collating data from 2012 he expects it to be a record year for sightings. You can read the CBC story and visit Rutkowski’s website through the links in the shownotes.
Russell Crowe’s UFO Sighting Saga
Movie star Russell Crowe, who was last seen in The Man With The Iron Fists, recently Tweeted pictures of what he believes to have been a UFO outside of his office. While attempting to capture images of fruitbats, he instead got three images of a strange light streaking by the camera. Although a sailboat has been suggested as a possible explanation, Crowe retorted that it was too fast to be a boat’s mast light. Links to the explanation and Crowe’s response are in the shownotes.
Russian Nanosatellite Loss Highlights Space Debris Danger
Debris from a 2007 Chinese anti-satellite weapon test appears to be responsible for the January destruction of a Russian nanosattelite. The loss of the sattelite, which was part of a precision laser ranging project, highlights not only the dangers of the growing field of space junk orbit Earth but of the potential unintended consequences of the weaponization of space. The shownotes include a link to Space.com coverage of the accident.
In last week’s news we mention The Out Of This World Conference, which will be held today, March 15th in Edinburg, Texas. It has since been announced that the conference, which is scheduled to include presentations by Stanton Friedman, Travis Walton and Noe Torres, will be streamed live by Jerry Pippin and Inception Radio Network. If you can not listen to the entire conference live, it will be rebroadcast this weekend as well. The event is timed to coincide with World Contact Day, which we reported earlier this week on the website.
Inception Radio and the Jerry Pippin Show have broadcast two previous conferences in this manner. Both times they also offered the presentations in podcast form, although this has not yet been confirmed for the Out of this World Conference. Martin, have you had a chance to listen to any of the previous conferences carried by Inception? What do you think of streaming the presentations?
Martin Willis: Stan, welcome back. How are you?
Stanton Friedman: I’m fine, here, in beautiful downtown Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada.
Martin: All right. Hey, I want to, first of all, I want to talk about your recent award that you just received. Congratulations!
Stan: Well, thank you very much. It would – it’s nice to receive accolades from your colleagues, and lifetime achievement – you only achieve that when you’re old. I’ve been at it a long time, you know, but, yeah, it was nice, and, as a matter of fact, I’m waiting for the video. They prepared, would you believe? A kind of 10 minute, this is your life, Stanton Friedman, http://stantonfriedman.com/ kind of thing.
Martin: Yes, I saw – I’ve watched that, yes. Is it –
Stan: – and it had some, you know, kiddie pictures, and so forth, so they had fun with it, and they used that, and then they had me give a – I gave a response, and I’m waiting for it to appear on Youtube.
Martin: Oh, Youtube. That’s great. Well, we’ll definitely post it on this – on our website, and that’ll be fun to see that. I was thinking: a lot of times, you know, the listeners will contact me and say: okay, stop beating the dead horse: Roswell, http://alien-ufo-research.com/Roswell/ but I can’t help it. I seem to talk about it a lot, and I wanted to talk to you, today, about Roswell, because you were the, really, basically, the first researcher, there. Is that right?
Stan: Well, it’s not the question of being there in, like, 1947. Yeah –
Stan: – I was the first civilian investigator of The Roswell Incident. Major Marcel didn’t come running to me, or anything like that. I didn’t get a secret tip, but it’s a crazy story. It was totally unexpected. I was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana to do 3 interviews at a television station for a program I was giving that night at Louisiana State University. We did the first 2. Things went right along. The third reporter wasn’t around; couldn’t find her. You know, no cell phones back then, so the station manager – he wanted to get that interview in, but he knew I had places to go, people to talk to, and so forth, and, out of the blue – I mean, he’s giving me coffee. He’s looking at his watch. He’s embarrassed, and, out of the blue, he says: you know, the guy you ought to talk to is Jesse Marcel. http://marceljr.com/ Brilliant investigator that I am I said: who’s he? His next sentence changed my life. He said: oh, he handled wreckage of one of those saucers you’re interested in. He was in the military. What? You know, totaled when I dropped my teeth, you might say. I said: what do you know about him? Well, he lives over in Houma, H-O-U-M-A. That didn’t tell me anything, ’cause I didn’t know where Houma was. It’s in Louisiana, and I’ve been there, since, to talk to Jesse, and well, what do you know about him, also? Well, we’re ham radio buddies. He’s a really good guy. You ought to talk to him, and then the reporter showed up, we did the interview, I was visiting the rest of the day. The next day I was at the airport, early, and I called information in Houma, wherever it was, and got a number for Jesse Marcel, called him, and, you see, he’s one of the few people that couldn’t deny his involvement. His picture was in newspapers, you know, and he knew this guy Bill Allen, the guy at the television station, so he told me his story. He didn’t have the exact day, and I shared it with Bill Moore, http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1538.htm a colleague with whom I did a lot of investigating, at that time. I was at a talk in – giving a talk in Bemidji, Minnesota, and got a second story about a crashed saucer in New Mexico, and Bill had a story from The Flying Saucer Review, http://www.fsr.org.uk/ the English publication from the 50s, in which an English actor, last name was Green, talked about hearing, on the radio, while driving across New Mexico, a story about a crashed saucer in New Mexico. His son lived in Canada. Bill talked to him. We got a date. First week of July Bill went to The University Of Minnesota Library Periodicals Department. There was the story, and confirmed what Jesse had said, and gave us a bunch more names, and the next year and a half we located 62 people in conjunction with the event. That’s –
Martin: Now, what had –
Stan: – when the first book came out.
Martin: Excuse me. Now, what had you heard about Roswell ahead of that time?
Stan: Essentially nothing. There was a short blurb in Frank Edwards’s http://projectcamelot.org/edwards.html book Flying Saucers: Serious Business, http://rense.com/general28/hist66.htm less than half a page, and he got some of the information wrong, and there’s a book The UFO Wave – Ted Bloecher http://www.noufors.com/Ted_Bloecher.htm wrote The UFO Wave Of the 1947 http://nicap.org/waves/Wave47Rpt/ReportUFOWave1947_Cover.htm in which there’s about a paragraph devoted to Roswell, and all of it wrong. You see, the story, when it came out, appeared in evening papers on July 8th, 1947 from Chicago west. It was too late in the day for the east coast papers. There were times where I should have posted sooner. By the end of the day the story had appeared in a Los Angeles paper: Army Captured Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region, General Says It’s Waiter – Radar Weather Gadget all – it’s all on the same front page story, and so the guy who put together, Ted Bloecher, hadn’t seen the good stories. He’d only seen the cover-up stories, and it lay there until I came along in ’78, and so I had no feeling about it, no knowledge about it. I’d noted it in these places, but didn’t make – what could you make out of it? There wasn’t any information, there. Once we started looking, of course, then we went at it hard and heavy, and I must say I was the first to find Walter Haut, http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Haut.html but I found him, I hate to say this, but by accident. I checked the editor and publisher. Is there a newspaper in Roswell? What did I know? I never been there. I’ve been there many times since, of course, and I – it was The Roswell Daily Record, so I called the paper and said: I’d like to talk to the editor from 1947. This is in ’78. Oh, long gone. What do you need? Well, I got an article, here. A guy named Walter Haut, Haut, his name is spelled 4 different ways in the articles I had, and, before I could finish the sentence, she says: oh, his wife works here. What? You don’t expect to find – as it turns out Walter was from Chicago. Yes, he was based in Roswell in 1947. Small town. You don’t expect him to be there in 1978, for goodness sakes –
Stan: – so I talked to the wife. Talked to Walter. He was a great help over the next umpteen years, 20 years, more than that. He had a base yearbook. He’s – and he recognized many of the names, helped us out. He was one of the starters of the museum, down there, and, for many years, his daughter, Julie, ran the museum. She’s had health problems, since, but – so Walter was, you could say, an accidental find, and I should add something else. One of the debunkers said: oh, I know about that story. Some PR guy made up the story get attention. I said: you don’t even know his name. We were being interviewed at the same time. Well, no. I said: well, I known him for 20 years. The notion that he made up a story, and put it out, on his own, is utterly absurd. His boss was the Commander of The 509th, the most elite military group in the entire world. They dropped the bombs, atomic bombs, on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They dropped 2 more during Operation Crossroads in 1946 in The Pacific. No way in the world he could have put out this story on his own. In addition, Walter wasn’t just a PR guy. He was a World War 2 bombadier, and, as a matter of fact, was chosen to drop the weapons – the instrument package on one of those 2 blasts in Operation Crossroads. You pick your best people to do that, because if the instrument package isn’t in the right place you’ve wasted a nuclear bomb, and there weren’t many of them around to waste, but, I mean, Walter was very special, and I checked with a lot of people, casually, in town, to get their handle on Walter. I didn’t hear one bad word about him. He was very well thought of in town, and, you know, Fredericton, where I live, is a small town, 50,000. Well, Roswell had only half that back then, and small towns you can’t get away with being an idiot, or a hoaxer, or a liar, or so forth. Everybody knows you, you know, and I noted that, here. I mean, people are friendly in a way that wasn’t true in California when I lived out there, you know, so that side of the story got started. Bill Moore and I found 62 people in a year and a half. First book came out, 1980: The Roswell Incident http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Roswell_incident.html?id=AwPL_isJdjoC by Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz. http://www.nndb.com/people/257/000174732/ I was supposed – I got part of the royalties. I didn’t get the nice comments I was supposed to get, but oh well. I can’t take those to the bank, you know, and we continued our research. By 1986 we’d found 92 people, and my book, I got to tell you a funny story, was Crash At Corona: The U. S. Military Retrieval And Cover-Up Of A UFO: The Definitive Study Of The Roswell Incident http://www.shop.stantonfriedman.com/CRASH-AT-CORONA-by-Stanton-Friedman-and-Don-Berliner-CAC.htm by Don Berliner http://www.ufoevidence.org/researchers/detail20.htm and myself, and I’m laughing about this, because, just within the last 2 weeks, I got copies of the republished, 2-volume Air Force – The Roswell Report. http://www.af.mil/information/roswell/index.asp Remember that big one? The first one was Project Mogul, http://www.roswellproof.com/ProjectMogul.html and the second one was crash test dummies.
Martin: Right, yeah.
Stan: Well, what’s funny – they slipped up the covers glossy, and, on top, white, large print on red backers: New Forward By Stanton T. Friedman, there was smaller print, Co-Author Of Crash At Corona: The U. S. Military Retrieval And Cover-Up Of A UFO: The Definitive Study Of The Roswell Incident, and, would you believe? On the cover page, on the bottom, it says: The Roswell Report, The Second Volume, Case Closed, U. S. Air Force and James McAndrew. Then it says: New forward by Stanton T. Friedman, and I blast The Air Force in my forward. I’m waiting for somebody to see this and shriek, because I, in both volumes, I blast The Air Force, as they deserve.
Stan: They lied. They cheated, you know, and, for people who don’t know it, this volume, second volume, this is the one that has the infamous explanation of stories of bodies – no, that’s because The Air Force was dropping crash test dummies all over the place in New Mexico.
Stan: Now, that sounds bleak.
Martin: Five years later, right?
Stan: They were dropped six years later, and, even more important, they show a picture of the guy who was in charge of the program, Raymond Madson, http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/04/roswell-report-ray-madson-and-project.html and another Air Force guy, with a dummy in between them. I met with Madson in person in Albuquerque, and he pointed out that the dummies for the test, to be meaningful, were 6 feet tall and 175 pounds, your prototypical pilot, in other words, and they were in uniform the way a pilot would be in uniform. You say: why would that be? Because when you’re falling with a parachute, and you’re getting out of an airplane at 40,000 feet the uniform has a major impact on the heating, the drag, you know, all the rest of that. There’s a little problem, for example, that how soon do you open your parachute? Because if it’s too soon you’re going to freeze to death, so the uniform – what I’m saying is the uniform wasn’t widow dressing. It was related –
Stan: – to the experiment, but on – and I enjoyed meeting with Madson. He was very straightforward. He also told me that when he was working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base he was working on the U-2, and his own boss didn’t know what he was working on, borrowed by another outfit, and his boss was going to give him a poor rating, so he had to get the guy that he was doing the work for to talk to the boss. This has to do with compartmentalization of information, and so he and his wife, who also worked for Wright-Pat, both had heard stories of bodies being kept at Wright-Patterson, so it’s a shame The New York Times, which featured this explanation, this ludicrous explanation, on the front page, didn’t bother to talk to Colonel Madson. I didn’t have any trouble finding him, and he was very straightforward. In other words, it wasn’t a forced interview, and I wasn’t pushing him, and we were talking facts to each other. I mean, I stress I’d had clearance for 14 years, and I’d understood how those things work, but, you know, those 2 volumes – I mean, the first one was the Mogul balloon explanation, which also doesn’t fit, at all –
Stan: – so I can’t wait until The Air Force people see this heading, bright: New forward by Stanton T. Friedman, and then read it. It’s over a page long, and I say some very scathing things about The Air Force and Roswell. Now, I must admit, now, Cosimo, http://www.cosimobooks.com/ which puts out these 2 volumes, also publishes my Roswell book. How’s that for a catch, huh?
Martin: Yeah, that’s great.
Stan: Crash At Corona. Somebody can thumb his nose at The Air Force, now.
Martin: Now, a couple of skeptics that I’ve had on this podcast – one of them I –
Stan: Are there skeptics in this one? Gee, I didn’t know that.
Martin: One was Seth Shostak, http://ufos.about.com/od/ufoskepticprofiles/p/shostak.htm who you debated –
Martin: – and I heard very well with. The other one was Evan Bernstein http://www.theskepticsguide.org/bios.aspx?evanbernstein from The Skeptics’ Guide To The Universe, http://theskepticsguide.org/ and I asked him the simple question. I said: why, in Earth, would The Army Air Force, at the time, go ahead and publish that they found a flying saucer? What’s your, you know, what’s your take on that? And, you know, the things that people come up with for a response is pretty baffling. I mean, that, alone, is the big question.
Stan: What did they say? You got to tell me.
Martin: Well, he, basically, said that, at the time, flying saucers didn’t seem like anything that was dangerous or threatening, and so it was better for them to publish a flying saucer than a Mogul balloon. That was his answer.
Stan: And that’s so much garbage. The Mogul – the newspaper article said: found last week. The last Mogul to be dropped was weeks before that. You know, utterly ridiculous, and out of context, because Kenneth Arnold’s http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case511.htm report was June 24th, and these guys have no understanding of the national security implications. Remember how many sightings – there were over a thousand in a, like, a month and a half time period, there, and it was perfectly clear, from pilot testimony, that these things had hyper-maneuverability, could fly circles around anything we had flying. Remember, we hadn’t broken the sound barrier, yet, at that time, and so the government was confronted with a real problem. Who are these guys? What do they want? Where are they from? How do they operate? Are they a threat to us? The bodies were small. Are they connected with the Chinese, maybe? You know, also small bodies. They couldn’t possibly go public with the truth, so you put out a – look, I found Colonel, well, retired General when I come, Thomas Jefferson Dubose. http://www.roswellproof.com/dubose.html He’s in those pictures with General Ramey http://ufo.whipnet.org/roswell/roger.ramey/ with Jesse Marcel with the crummy wreckage on the floor, which has nothing to do with Mogul balloons, believe me, and Jesse, or Colonel Dubose – I managed to locate him. I figured he might have been in the – at West Point, so I checked with West Point. Yeah, he was alive, and so I located him. I’m a good detective. He told me, in person, and he still was very sharp. He was in his 80s. I should be so sharp when I’m his age just a few years down the street, now. He took the call from General Ramey’s boss, General McMullen, http://usafflagranks.com/Major_General_Clements_McMullen.htm giving him 3 instructions. This is after the press release went out. He said 3 orders: get the press off our back. I don’t care how you do it. Send some of that wreckage up here, today, to Washington with one of your Colonel couriers, and I don’t want you ever to talk about it, again, not even with your buddy Roger Ramey. That’s an order. Do I need to put it in writing, Colonel? No, sir. When a 2-star General tells a Colonel what to do he does it, especially right after the war, you know, and both West Pointers, and they knew each other, so, you know, that’s an important witness –
Stan: – Colonel – retired General Dubose. He’s head of The Air Force’s search and rescue teams. Like I said he went on to be a General. He knew half the famous pilots you ever heard of. We – he was a pleasure to meet with, and so, that’s the kind of witness who’s testimony I – you like to get. Now, Colonel Blanchard http://ufo.whipnet.org/roswell/william.blanchard/ was dead, and I’ve had people say: he was the base commander. Oh, they must have banished him to Siberia for putting out that stupid story. Well, as it happens, his – he went on to get 4 more promotions, and was a 4-Star General –
Stan: – and Vice-Chief-Of-Staff of The Air Force when he died of a massive heart attack at The Pentagon in the mid-60s. Big obituary in The New York Times, buried with honors up at The Air Force Academy, and, while he was on his way up, he was Operations Director for The Strategic Air Command, which meant he had thousands of nuclear weapons under his control. Now, that doesn’t sound like an idiot, to me, you know?
Martin: Not exactly.
Stan: I mean, these guys, of course, never – to get to the facts, like that, because we don’t want to say anything that might let somebody think this stuff is true. I mean, Seth and I debated on Coast To Coast Radio. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/ We had met on a – we both got a free trip on The Queen Elizabeth 2 from England to New York, and we each gave 3 lectures, and we each heard the other 3 lectures, and, of course, in my lecture I talked about 5 large-scale scientific studies, and, after each one, casually asked: how many people, here, have read this? And, of course, he hadn’t read any. Now, I admit, a year after that, after we had done our debate, I’d sent him a copy of my book: Flying Saucers And Science, http://www.shop.stantonfriedman.com/FLYING-SAUCERS-SCIENCE-by-Stanton-Friedman-FSS.htm at his approval, and said, on Coast To Coast, that he had it on his nightstand. Didn’t say he’d read it, of course, and the vote, after our debate, 3 hours long on Coast To Coast, was I got 57%, he got 33%, and 10% said: I don’t know who won, but these guys – their – abide by the 4 basic rules of the nasty, noisy negativists, the fossilized physicists, ancient academics, what other nice things you want to say. First is: what the public doesn’t know I’m not going to tell them. Second is: don’t bother me with the facts. My mind’s made up. The third is: if you can’t attack the data attack the people. It’s easier, and fourth: do your research by proclamation. Investigation is too much trouble, and nobody will know the difference, anyway, so the SETI http://www.seti.org/ cultists, and you know that SETI stands for Silly Effort To Investigate, S-E-T-I, the SETI cultists abide by all those rules. They – I hope, someday, there will be a PhD thesis done about the will not to believe on the part of the SETI community. I mean, you can understand it. If aliens are visiting who needs SETI?
Martin: That’s right.
Stan: Learn sign language, you know.
Martin: You’re out of a job. Yeah.
Stan: Yeah, out of a job, and the notion that somebody else, out there – I mean, I agree with the SETI people. There’s beings out there, intelligent beings, advanced beings probably a little more advanced than we are, ’cause we haven’t had long-distance radio since – only since 1901. They could be a million years ahead of us.
Martin: That’s right.
Stan: Well, why would they be stuck at our level of technology, in the first place? I don’t use a slide rule anymore. I mean, maybe they do, but I don’t, and why would they us a message? Hey SETI guys. We’d like to have dinner with you. Prepare it for ’47. We’ll be there in 33 years, you know. Utterly ridiculous, and the crazy thing is you’d think they were living in Disney World, or something. They can’t imagine why aliens would come here and not want to talk to them, and people say: well, why, Stan? Why would they come here? Why don’t they just land on The White House lawn? A stupid question. The President Of The United States, I mean, I know this is a shock, but – doesn’t speak for 7 billion Earthlings. He has trouble speaking for 310 million Americans. Why would they come here? Well, I think the first duty of ever government is to, you know, provide for the future security, well-being, and you’ve got to keep tabs on the primitives in the local neighborhood to make sure they’re not a threat to your security. Well, what kind of guys are we Earthlings? Think about it for, you know, 10 seconds. We’re a primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare. In the war, World War 2, we killed only 50 million of our own kind. We destroyed 1700 cities. Now, would anybody in his right mind, out there, want us out there. After all, we’ve given the tip. They know we know about nuclear energy, and that’s a whole new ballgame. We didn’t figure out how The Sun worked until 1938, theoretically. First fission weapon was 1945. First fusion weapon was 1952. Mike released the energy of 10 million tons of TNT. Now, a big bomb that Walter Haut dropped, for example, was a 10 ton blockbuster. We’re talking 10 million tons. 8 years later, in 1960, I worked on the study of fusion propulsion system for deep space travel. Everybody in the universe, who was, at least, at our level of technology, is going to know that fusion is how the stars work. They’re all like that. It’s not an occasional – oh, it works, here, but no place else. All the stars we can see work by nuclear fusion. Does anybody think nobody’s going to pay attention to that? That’s as silly as saying: well, they built atom bombs. They didn’t do anything useful with them. Well, tell that to Admiral Rickover. Nuclear submarines go around the world underwater, 1956, and, even more shocking, we have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers that can operate for more than 18 years without refueling.
Martin: That’s amazing!
Stan: Think about that for a minute. It is amazing. It truly is. Thing of how many ships loaded with diesel fuel it would take if we didn’t have nuclear power for those things, and so, these guys aren’t living in the real world, and they – famous comments by smart astronomers: governments can’t keep secrets. Seth said: the proof of that is how badly FEMA behaved with Katrina. The second thing is: look how bad the post office is operating. What the heck has that got to do –
Stan: – with keeping secrets –
Martin: That’s really related.
Stan: – and then, you know, we have the head of The Hayden Planetarium, Tyson, Dr. Tyson.
Stan: He told an audience of 1800 people – I’m jealous, you see, I don’t, often, get that big an audience, sometimes. He told them the proof that the government can’t keep secrets is how much we know about President Clinton’s genitalia.
Martin: That’s right. I heard him say that, yeah.
Stan: You know, oh, that’s a smart remark. That tells you a lot about security, but how about The OSI and The NRO and The CIA and The DIA, you know. These guys just don’t live in the real world, so I’d take on any of them. Again, I also took on, it was funnier, Michael Shermer http://dailygrail.com/Essays/2004/12/Shermer-Sham –
Martin: Oh, boy.
Stan: – head of The Skeptics’ Society. http://www.skeptic.com/
Martin: He was a tough one. How’d you do with him? Or he’s still got –
Stan: I got 80% of the vote, but he started off. Made a hole big enough to drive a Mac truck through. He was asked by George Noory, you know, what’s your take on all this? Well, he said: UFOs are like those other far out subjects. There’s always a small percentage, 5%, that you can’t explain, because there isn’t enough data, and so, that’s how all the problem is, and, boy, I jumped through that one. I said: look, what you just said is totally false. Project Blue Book Special Report 14, http://archive.org/details/ProjectBlueBookSpecialReport14 the biggest study ever done for The United States Air Force, mind you, found that 21 and a half percent of the 3201 cases they looked at couldn’t be explained. In The UFO Evidence http://www.nicap.org/papers/hallstate.htm by Richard Hall http://www.ufowatchdog.com/richard_hall.htm 18% of 4500 cases couldn’t be explained, and, in that Blue Book, incidentally, that was completely separate from the 9.3% that were listed as insufficient information. The University Of Colorado study, http://files.ncas.org/condon/ according to the largest, well, UFO hunt – UFO group – the largest group of space scientists, The American Institute Of Aeronautics And Astronautics, https://www.aiaa.org/ they had a UFO subcommittee, and they found that any subject where you get 30% of 117 cases that couldn’t be explained is worthy of further investigation, so it was downhill, from there, for Michael, and I got 80% of the vote, ’cause he absolutely hadn’t done his homework. These guys are not accustomed to having to justify the foolish things they say, and they do say them all the time. Look, I won a date at Oxford University Debating Society. Got 60% of the vote, and, you know, it’s not that I’m a great debater. It’s that I do my homework, put facts in hand before putting mouth in gear, and these guys never have to do that. I’m just working on my column. I do a monthly column for The Mutual UFO Network http://mufon.com/ in The MUFON Journal, and I’m doing one on press coverage of the subject, and pointing out that there is a PhD thesis on just that subject by Dr. Herbert Strentz. This is down at The Medill School Of Journalism, Northwestern University, and he, later, went on, incidentally, to be Chairman of The Journalism Department at Drake University, you know, so he wasn’t a lightweight after he got his degree, but, in his thesis, he made some, how shall I put this? Strong comments. He said, let me get the exact quote: “The coverage has been marked by superficiality, redundancy, silliness, careless reporting, and lack of relevant information. The lack of relevant information was also attributable to the reluctance of the press to ferret out information about the phenomenon and those involved in it.” That’s pretty strong words in a PhD thesis from a guy at a school of journalism, and who went on to become Dean of The School Of Journalism at Drake, so what I’m trying to say is we have a long history of nasty, noisy negativists and ancient academics and fossilized physicists saying stupid things about flying saucers, and, you know, if they want to contradict me show me. You know, put the facts out there. Let me give you another example that illustrates how bad the job the press has done. The largest study ever done for The United States Air Force, Project Blue Book Special Report 14, covered 3201 reports. That’s a lot. This was done way back in 1955, yet The Secretary Of The Air Force, Donald Quarles, http://www.af.mil/information/heritage/person.asp?dec=1950&pid=123006469 said: on the basis of this report, they didn’t give the title, ’cause if somebody had said Special Report 14 I’m sure a news man would have said: what do you mean 14? What happened to 1 through 13? Oh, well, we can’t talk about those. Those are classified. Anyway, The Secretary Of The Air Force said: on the basis of this report we believe that no objects such as those properly described as flying saucers have overflown The United States, even the unknown 3% could have been identified as conventional phenomena or illusions if more complete observational data had been available. That’s from The Secretary Of The Air Force, carried all across the country, October, 1955. The only trouble with the remark is the unknowns were 21 and a half percent.
Stan: That’s not close to 3 where I come from, anyway. Furthermore, they were completely separate from those 9.3% that were listed as: Insufficient Information. Furthermore, they did a cross comparison, in the report, between the unknowns and the knowns. They found that the unknowns – less than 1% probability that the unknowns were just missed knowns. The 2 groups did not match in any characteristic, and 9.3% were listed as insufficient information completely separate from the unknowns, so, you know, total lies, but the press didn’t report that, and Donald Quarles didn’t care. He got away with lying. You know what was even stranger? They didn’t put out the title of the report, and they didn’t say who did the work: Battelle Memorial Institute http://battelle.org/ in Columbus, Ohio, a very well-respected research and development firm. Nowhere mentioned, and so, you know, there – what will I call it? Dissuasion, lying, call it what you want, propaganda, nonsense, anything, but these guys that you had on are typical of the crowd that says: we don’t need to know anything about this phenomena. Just quote from these stupid things that other people have said, and we’re home free. Well, it doesn’t work that way, guys. Some of us want to get our facts straight.
Martin: That’s right. I did ask Seth if he read Leslie Kean’s http://ufosontherecord.com/leslie-kean/ book, because there was a rumor that he had, and he said, to me: well, part of it, so, at least, he started to get through some of the books.
Stan: Yeah, probably, at least, the first 3 pages.
Martin: Yeah, the forward, yeah.
Stan: It’s an excellent book, incidentally.
Martin: Yes, I think so, too. Getting back, all the way back, to what we were talking about, earlier, in The Air Force’s explanation for the crash dummies, I am just wondering why they didn’t just plain deny the fact that there was bodies instead of coming up with the crash dummies. What’s your take on that, Stan?
Stan: Well, there – we were approaching the 50th anniversary of Roswell, and there was a lot of noise about bodies and Roswell and stuff, so somebody dug out this stuff about the crash test dummies, and, look, we been clever. We looked very hard, ’cause we’ve heard these stories, and look what we found. They used the same map showing all the locations where they’ve dropped crash test dummies all across New Mexico 3 times. Unfortunately, none of the drops were near either of the 2 crashes: The Corona Crash, or The Plains Of San Augustine Crash. They got away with it. You lie, because it works.
Martin: I believe someone said, at one time, that there was 4 lies the government blatantly did about Roswell.
Stan: Yes, at least 4. I’m waiting for number 5. First they tell us that they lied when they said it was a crashed flying saucer. Then they said it was a radar reflector/weather balloon combination as if the head of intelligence for the most elite military group in the world couldn’t recognize a weather balloon –
Stan: which were launched every single day, you understand. The third explanation was the Mogul balloon explanation, which they really had to look around to find that one, too, and, incidentally, they talked about high – how classified it was. It was only the mission that was classified. None of the technology was classified –
Stan: – otherwise they would have had chase planes following every one. They were left to drop in the desert, and the fourth explanation, finally, was the crash test dummy explanation, even though it doesn’t fit, you know. It’s a history of deception that you’d think our press would have lit upon along time ago. It’s very easy to explain straightforwardly as I’m doing in this column. I’m writing it as we speak, here, but why did – people have asked me: well, why do they lie? ‘Cause it works. I mean, is there a better explanation? I don’t know. Don’t bother me with the facts. My mind’s made up. That’s the rule, one of them.
Martin: Exactly. I –
Stan: Go ahead.
Martin: I think the most important question that I’d like to ask you, today, is do you think that The Roswell Incident is just going to become a total myth as time goes by? What do you think the future is?
Stan: No. I’m hoping that there’ll be a few more deathbed confessions from people who know the truth, and decided: what can they do to me, now? You know, we’re racing the undertaker. Most of the witnesses are long gone, of course –
Martin: That’s right.
Stan: but there are some long-lived people. I had a note, today, about somebody’s uncle who told him that it was real, and so forth, so I’m trying to get to the bottom of that. I don’t accept anybody’s statement. I got a check. Proved, to me, he was in the military, you know. Don’t make claims you can’t support, so I think, also, another thing has changed. People are much more ready to believe, today, that governments might have lied, in the past, then they were years ago. We trusted the government. I remember World War 2. We just got saved from a terrible fate. If the government said it was so it was true. Most people don’t realize that within 10 days of Pearl Harbor we had set up a censorship operation. There was somebody who had the right to tell people: you can’t say that, you can’t say that, you can’t say this in a press release, etcetera, etcetera, honest, so we were ready to go, and I don’t blame them. I’m not saying that was bad. Loose lips do sink ships. You know, I remember people saying that, but lying has become more of a way of life, and because it works, and so, I think, there will be a day of reckoning, and, you know, I look at the – I have to laugh when I think about it. It took years to get copies of 156 National Security Agency UFO documents. Wow! What excitement! When we got a look at them they were all whited out except for about 3 sentences per page. They released them. Now, The CIA, much more dynamic, theirs were blacked out except for, like, 8 words per page. Top Secret Umbra. Wow! Now, if any darned major media group would show these documents, and quote General Bolander, who said that reports of UFOs which could affect national security aren’t part of the Blue Book system, that’s a direct quote, then any major media group could break the story, unless somebody gets to them. Now, you know, people say: oh, come on. You’re saying the press was influenced. Well, President Kennedy often commented that they had told The New York Times not to print a story about the Cuba – The Bay Of Pigs stuff, you know? And he wished they had, ’cause they would have avoided the debacle that turned out to be. During World War 2 there was a sanction on the use of the word: Uranium.
Stan: Couldn’t use it. Yeah, and understandably. I mean, you know, you couldn’t talk about the balloon bombs, The Fugo Balloon Bombs, that the Japanese were dropping. They would release them off the coast, and the winds would carry them, and they hope they’d hit in the forest and cause a great fire, and so forth. They released a lot of them, but there was – you couldn’t say anything about what their effect was, so they didn’t know whether they were effective, or not. One person got killed, incidentally, mucking with the bomb that was attached to a balloon, but I’m saying censorship was part of the game. Lies were part of the game. Disinformation, and a fascinating story how we tried to fool, successfully, as it happens, Hitler about where we were going to land in the invasion of Europe. People knew it was coming. We landed, eventually, at the beaches at Normandy, but we did everything possible, for the immediately preceding few months, to convince Hitler and everybody else, that the landing would take place at Calais. We built phony buildings over there – show we were training, you know. A guy – a dead body was placed in the water off Spain with documents in his pocket that an intelligent intelligence officer could surmise meant that we’d be landing at Calais instead of at Normandy, and how did it work? Well, the German Generals, when we landed at Normandy, bring forward the reserves. We need the reserves, and it was at – a a a guys. You’ve been fooled. They’re really going to land over there at Calais. You got to hold back those troops until they land. Then we’ll slaughter them. Well, too late, Adolf. You got fooled, so, you know, disinformation, misinformation, all those things are part of what happens in the world. It’s not only the SETI cultists that get fooled.
Martin: Well, Stan, we’re out of time. I hope that you’ll come back on the show, again. At – it’s been real enjoyable speaking with you, today.
Stan: Well, I appreciate that. I hope people will look at my website www.stantonfriedman.com, find out about all my books, and all the other good stuff going on. Thanks for having me.
Martin: Sure thing, and, again, I want to congratulate you for your recent award.
Stan: I was very pleased to get it. Thank you.
Music by: Killawatt – Capa