Show Notes, 46. Leslie Kean

News with Michael Lauck

Black Triangle Sighting Witnesses 1200 Miles Apart

Roger Marsh is reporting on the Huffington Post that a black triangle was sighted by multiple witnesses located hundreds of miles from each other on April 27. The reports, which have received national attention on shows such as Coast to Coast AM, originate from Tennessee and Colorado. Read Marsh’s coverage through the link below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-marsh/witnesses-1200-miles-apart_b_3179709.html?utm_hp_ref=ufo

New UFO Video Surfaces From NASA

Scott Waring, who recently broke the story of the apparent UFO seen on Google Earth images near Area 51, is reporting on UFOSightingsDaily.com that a newly released NASA photograph shows something strange that he purports is a disc shaped object. See the image and judge for yourself through the link below.

http://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/2013/05/disk-shaped-object-above-earth-in-nasa.html

Recent Australian UFO Sighting Now Has Video Evidence

Cell phone footage has now surfaced supporting the reports of a strange light over Tannum Sands and Gladstone, Queensland Australia on May 4th. The bright orange light initially sounds like a fireball, except witnesses report it literally stopped in the sky. You can see the video for yourself and read the local coverage through the link below.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/more-people-come-forward-confirm-ufo-sighting/1857728

Filmmaker Says Chasing UFOs Damages National Geographic’s Image

Michael Parfit, who has made films for National Geographic in the past, stated at the recent International Wildlife Film Festival programming choices are damaging the group’s credibility. Specifically mentioned were the National Geographic Channel shows Chasing UFOs and Diggers, which is about metal detecting and Animal Planet shows. Read Parfit’s comments and a reply from a National Geographic rep through the link below.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/filmmakers-at-iwff-ufo-ghost-shows-damage-national-geographic-others/article_8408814c-b39a-11e2-b7a3-0019bb2963f4.htm

Citizens Hearing on Disclosure Convinces At Least One…

Former Alaska senator Mike Gravel has stated that UFOs are real and the cover goes to the White House. We have a link to a fairly snarky MSN blurb on his statements, and some other stories about the Hearings, in our below. News from the Hearings did pick up over the weekend and there has a bit of controversy as well.

http://now.msn.com/mike-gravel-former-senator-says-ets-have-visited-and-the-white-house-is-covering-it-up

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/40196-draft-thousands-of-airline-pilots-witness-ufos/

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Leslie Kean Interview

Martin Willis: Leslie Kean, http://ufosontherecord.com/leslie-kean/ welcome back. How are you?

 

Leslie Kean: Thanks, Martin, I’m great, and it’s great to be with you, again.

 

Martin: Yes. Let’s talk, right away, about the symposium coming up. For the website, it’s C–U–F–O–R–N–C.com.

 

Leslie: Okay. Well, this is a symposium that’s going to take place in North Carolina, that’s what the N–C is, on June 29th and June 30th, and it consists of a lot of, I think, very good speakers, very serious. The whole point of the organizer’s interest in this, a man named Kent Center, who has been with MUFON http://mufon.com/ for many years, and had a very powerful sighting, years ago, he is interested in putting on a conference where he feels like the very most credible, and most scientifically–oriented people can come together to, kind of, counteract some of the, sort of, New–Agey, and, kind of, you know, unscientific stuff that goes on in the UFO field, so that’s what’s his inspiration, and I think he’s got a really good lineup of speakers, including General DeBrower http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=882 from Belgium, who was the investigator for The Air Force during The Belgian Wave, http://www.ufoencounters.co.uk/the-belgian-ufo-wave.html and Dr. Richard Haines, http://www.nicap.org/bios/haines.htm who’s the head of NARCAP, http://narcap.org/ and the national aviation safety organization, and very interesting cases that he represents, and talks about, and Charles Halt http://ufocongress.com/ufo-conference/2011-speakers/charles-halt/ from The Bentwaters Case, http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/ and a lot of – some academics are going to be coming, political scientists, and a sociologist who’ll look at the whole issue of the taboo, and the meaning of people’s, sort of, resistance to the – to it, and we’ve got a very interesting component of this is active government officials from both the official organization in Chile, and the official organization in France, and these two countries, really, have the leading agencies in the world that are investigating UFO – UAP or UFOs within a government, and the agency in Chile is located within the equivalent of our FAA, the agency in France is located within the equivalent of our NASA, so the current representatives from both of those organizations are going to be there, which is really special, because they don’t – they rarely go to conferences –

 

Martin: Oh, wow!

 

Leslie: – and they’re going to be able to talk about how – why their governments are involved with this, what their governments have learned, how they approach their investigations, and what kinds of cases they’re working on, and I think that’s going to be really, really fascinating, and we’ve also got Parviz Jafari, http://www.noufors.com/Parviz_Jafari.html General Jafari from Iran, who was the Air Force pilot in the famous 1976 Iranian case, who was in, kind of, a dogfight with –

 

Martin: Right, yeah.

 

Leslie: – with a UFO, so I just think it’s – I’m excited to be – have been invited to speak, there, myself. I’m excited to see these other speakers, and I think it’ll be a really fascinating conference, and the other really interesting thing we have, actually, Martin, is Saturday night there’s a special science lecture by Dr. Jeffrey Bennett, who’s an astrophysicist astronomer. He’s a really, really prominent person in the, sort of, exobiology, astrobiology world, and he’s going to talk to us about how science is approaching the searching for extraterrestrial life. His lecture is titled: Beyond UFOs: The Scientific Search For Extraterrestrial Life And It’s Astonishing Implications For Our Future, and we’ll learn about the Earth–like planets that have been detected by The Kepler Satellite, and, you know, the work of various scientists to go about and find life in the universe beyond the realm of UFOs, but just what the actual scientific community is doing, and I think that’s going to add a really interesting dimension to the conference to have somebody like that there.

 

Martin: Absolutely. Does he have a take on UFOs, himself?

 

Leslie: Well, as far as I know, he’s open to the subject, ’cause, obviously, he wouldn’t be participating in this, but I don’t think – I think, like most scientists, he feels there’s not really enough evidence to prove that there’s vehicles visiting us from elsewhere. I mean, he’s, you know, the scientists are, you know, they’re hard to get onboard on –

 

Martin: Yes.

 

Leslie: – the subject, and they’re very – they tend to be very skeptical, and I think that’s fine, and I just – I’m happy whenever we can bridge the scientific world with the best that we have in the UFO field. I think it’s a great thing to be able to make a link between the two.

 

Martin: Absolutely.

 

Leslie: Yeah, and, so, that’s what I think is going to happen, here, with Dr. Bennett, because I’m sure that there’ll be a very interesting discussion. We’re allowing a long time for a Q and A session after his lecture, and I think it’ll be very interesting for some of the people at this conference to interact with him about the UFO question, and how he sees it, so – and, sort of, you know, to cross over into the scientific realm is going to be really exciting.

 

Martin: And there’s also a woman, there, talking about a little controversial subject: crop circles.

 

Leslie: Right, but I didn’t mention Nancy. Nancy Talbot http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_nancy_talbot.htm was invited to talk about, really, the question that people ask all the time. Is there any relationship between UFOs and crop circles? And what I respect about Nancy is that she has pulled together a team of scientists, and, for many years, has been engaging these scientists in actual laboratory analysis of plants, and the, you know, the effects that the crop circles have on the soils, and she’s really taken a scientific approach to, sort of, looking at the physical effects of the crop circles, the ones that are not formed by humans, which, of course, many of them are, so then she’s very interested in sorting out the genuine crop circles from the hoaxed ones, and she’s not, sort of, into the whole New Age aspect of crop circles, so I think of all the people who study crop circles she’s really the most scientifically–oriented, and I commend her for having brought in very credible scientists into her team. Her group is called The BLT Research Team, http://www.bltresearch.com/ and it is a team, so she’s going to be presenting what the physical aspects of crop circles are that have been determined in the lab, which is interesting, and she’s going to be a –

 

Martin: Yeah.

 

Leslie: – very scientifically–oriented lecture about crop circles, and addressing the question of: does she think there’s any links to them with UFOs? And we’ll – I’m not going to try and answer that question, but I think it’ll be interesting to have her address it.

 

Martin: Yes. Oh, did we even mention what the dates were, on this?

 

Leslie: The – it’s June 29th and June 30th in North Carolina, and the website, again, it’s like the – it’s the abbreviations for The Center For UFO Research – North Carolina, so if – and if anybody goes to my website, UFOs On The Record, http://ufosontherecord.com/ or my Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/lesliekean there are links to the website for this conference.

 

Martin: So where did they come up with that name?

 

Leslie: Well, the reason that we have the – that the organizer, Kent Center, has this name is because he is organizing this conference through a very prestigious venue in Greensboro: The Greensboro Coliseum. It’s this huge complex of lecture halls, and performance halls, and they – in order for them to have a contract with him they said he had to have an organization. I guess they only – they’ll only deal with organizations, so they required him to set up an organization to be – in order to produce this thing, so he’s – he just came up with the name: Center For UFO Research because there were no – there’s no organization, already, with that name, but it’s just because he had to come up with something, and that’s how it happened. It’s, really, basically, just an entity that exists in order to produce this conference.

 

Martin: You know, something I was thinking of – perhaps if someone didn’t listen to your last interview they really don’t know your background. However, if they’re interested in UFOs, I’m sure they probably seen something, you know, some of the documentaries that are out there that you’re involved in, but can you just, quickly, go over your background, and how you became interested – just a real quick – in a nutshell?

 

Leslie: Yeah. I mean, in a nutshell, I’m an investigative reporter, and I had a track record writing, and publishing, and doing radio work before I got interested in UFOs on just a normal range of topics, I say normal before I became an abnormal journalist studying UFOs, but, anyway – and back in 1999, I believe it was, I was given a copy of The COMETA Report http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_cometareport01.htm before it was, you know, released in America. Probably, your listeners probably know what that is. It’s a military study from – that came out of France on UFOs, and a very impressive group of people wrote it, and somebody from France sent me the English translation of this thing. It was a 90–page study with incredible group of authors, and I, as a journalist, I was just, sort of, blown away by that, because the – not only did they document great cases, but they made the statement that they thought that the extraterrestrial hypothesis was the most valid and logical, and likely, explanation for these cases that they studied, which were among the very best cases, and, so, that’s – I did a story about that for The Boston Globe in 2000 http://rense.com/general/cometadss.htm after researching some stuff around it for months before I did the story. That’s what got me started covering UFOs as a subject, and because I been so – it’s so compelling to me. After that story came out I became even more interested in it, and have stayed with it, basically, ever since, and the – my work is culminated in my book: UFOs: Generals, Pilots, And Government Officials Go On The Record, http://ufosontherecord.com/the-book/ which was – came out a couple of years ago, and was a New York Times Bestseller. That’s, sort of, the culmination of all my work. My approach is, base – it’s journalistic. I’m not a UFOlogist. I’m not, like, a UFO researcher. I’m a journalist. I’m reporting on the best information, the best sources, and, you know, the most credible information that I can find to represent the subject, because I believe that there, obviously, there’s something to it. I believe we have enough evidence to show that there is some kind of a phenomenon that exists, and I’ve just been trying to get that – the message out, you know, from a journalistic perspective, which is a rigorous perspective in what you’re willing to accept as legitimate, and not legitimate.

 

Martin: Right. Well, you’re a definite asset. I’m really glad that you’re doing what you’re doing. How would you say that your life has changed since you chose this path?

 

Leslie: Well, it’s – and, you know, at first, I was – it was nerve–racking, and I felt, kind of, marginalized from the whole journalistic world, because I was taking on a subject for which there’s a taboo, you know –

 

Martin: Right.

 

Leslie: – and I remember when I was working at a public radio station in California in The San Francisco Bay Area during the time I was researching the issue after I got the report from France, and before I published in The Boston Globe, and I, literally, did not want to tell any of my colleagues at the radio station, even though it was a very progressive radio station, any of them that I was interested in this topic. I mean, it was very, you know, I was really nervous about it, and, after the story published in The Boston Globe, because that was such a mainstream publication, and I was not ridiculed for the story, I, gradually, gained more confidence in it, you know, but the first few years are, kind of, it’s just, kind of, nerve–racking when everybody thinks the subject matter is a joke, but, as it stands, now, you know, I’ve really gone through an evolution with this, and more and more people take it seriously, and I’ve also gained more and more confidence in the validity of the subject over the years the more – the harder I’ve worked at it, the more people I’ve come to know at high levels who investigate it. I have absolutely no problem, anymore, with just taking a strong stand on the issue, but that’s the really – the hard part about it is just the stigma against the subject. It’s also been very inspiring, to me, because it does, you know, it stretches your mind, and there’s a lot of strange things about the subject, of course, that I would never talk about, really, publicly, or in a mainstream context, that really make you wonder, and make you think about a lot of things, and, so, it’s a, sort of, this exciting thing to be involved with, because if, indeed, it is ever proven that we are being visited by – from somewhere else it’s, to me, the biggest story a journalist could ever want to have.

 

Martin: Absolutely.

 

Leslie: It’s a huge story, so I feel like I’m on the cutting edge of something that’s really, really a game–changer. You know, it’s really a paradigm shift possibility, here, for the planet. The problem is we don’t have the kind of material we need to actually prove what these things are, and, so, my goal is to try to get what I think is necessary for that proof to, hopefully, be established, at some point.

 

Martin: Now, you’re on the real, what I consider, the real credible side of UFOlogy, and what you’re trying to do and develop, and all that. How do you think the other side affects what you’re trying to do? Fringe side, let’s say.

 

Leslie: It really doesn’t affect what I’m trying to do, at all. I mean, I feel like the, sort of, the more fringe kind of New Age, and less rigorous, you know, UFOlogy types are, sort of, in a world by themselves. I don’t think they really bleed, very much, out beyond their own close–knit community, and the only time it affects me is if it, somehow, gets out. I mean, the media coverage can affect the work I do, to some extent, but even that is, really, not terribly significant, you know, when you have something ridiculed in the media, because of the way something was presented that wasn’t – shouldn’t have been said, or that kind of thing, but, basically, I’m really working in another world. I’m not – I don’t identify with the whole UFOlogy world, because I’m not a UFOlogist, I’m a journalist, and it’s very different. It’s a very different role to be playing in, you know, dealing with the subject matter than the, sort of UFOlogy, UFO community people. I’m not like a true believer, you know, and I respect a lot of the researchers. I mean, there’s incredible researchers in the – credible UFOlogists, very dedicated, smart people, and, obviously, I benefit tremendously from the work that researchers have done over the decades.

 

Martin: Right.

 

Leslie: I have great respect for the work they’ve done. I mean, we didn’t have anyone else doing it, except civilians, and some scientists, but, mainly, civilian researchers, and it’s just been amazing what they’ve been able to do, so that I respect, but I, you know, so, in that sense, I really benefit a lot from the work that they’ve done, and I’m – I, obviously, have a lot of books and make use of research that’s been done by people, but my job is, basically, to, one, make the most credible information available to the public, so they can have a clear sense of what we actually know about UFOs, and what we don’t know, is to sort out the, sort of, more ambiguous information from the more solid information, and I think – and another goal I’ve, sort of, taken on is to translate the subject, if I can use the word: translate, to put it into a language and a context that the political world can relate to, that, you know, policymakers can relate to, and scientists can relate to in order to try to get them engaged with the subject, and it’s something I’ve worked very hard on learning how do for many years, and I’ve had very, very good advisers in the heart of Washington D. C., including a prominent politic – public relations firm, there, which have instructed me on how to position the issue among these people, so –

 

Martin: Wow!

 

Leslie: – that they can accept it as best, you know, it’s very hard for them to accept it, but you have to be so careful what you say, and how you approach these people, and I feel like that’s, sort of, another job I’ve taken on is being a person that can translate the issue for those people if – or, sort of, put it into the way that they can relate to it, and I – it’s very important, to me, to try to do that –

 

Martin: Wow, that’s right!

 

Leslie: – and, you know, the most extreme stuff these people are not going to have anything to do with anything too extreme, and it actually makes them very nervous, so I have a whole approach that I use, which I think is effective in engaging them.

 

Martin: Speaking of translating, you were in Chile for quite a while. I follow you on Facebook. Are – you’ve gone back and forth. Can you talk about what’s going on with that?

 

Leslie: Yeah. I’m very interested in the official agency in Chile, because they, I think, are the leading agency in the world in terms of, number 1, what they’re actually able to accomplish, but, also, number 2, in the way they are so thoroughly integrated into the whole fabric of the country’s – of the country. I mean, all the different branch of government, there, the military, the aviation world, all the airports, all the flight schools, the universities, everybody there knows about this group, this official group, and when anything happens this group immediately hears about it, and they have committees from all these different scientific disciplines who they can call on, at a moment’s notice, to come and help with any investigation –

 

Martin: Wow!

 

Leslie: – not just scientific, but, you know, military people, the police, the police are in total cooperation with them, so it’s – and there’s 4 full–time staff that work in it within the agency that would, for us, would be The FAA, so, to me, it’s like a metaphor. It’s like being able to go down there, and observe how an ideal – an – a country should, ideally, handle this issue, as far as I’m concerned. I think –

 

Martin: Absolutely.

 

Leslie: – that they, you know, they figured out how to do it, they’ve worked really hard on changing the attitude from ridicule to one of respect, and they have a lot of collaboration from every, as I said, from The Air Force, The Navy, The Army, The Police, everyone in the official world, so that when it – when something’s happens they’re in a position to do a very good investigation on it. The problem with – and the reason the official agencies can do a better job is, simply, because they have access to information that a civilians just don’t have access to, such as, you know, immediately being able to get radar tapes, immediately being able to get to the head of the organization that handles all the radar in that country, and talking to them, and, you know, they have access to everything, immediately being able to get interviews with the witnesses. I mean, when official agency requests this kind of thing nobody objects. When you have civilians everything takes forever, you have to go through Freedom Of Information, you can’t, necessarily, get all the information you need, the police aren’t, necessarily, going to cooperate with you, etcetera, so it’s very interesting and exciting for me to watch an official agency, like this, that is so well–respected, and integrated into the country, to see how they work. It’s just a – so I’ve – and I’m also very close to the people in the organization, there, and I really enjoy going down to Chile, so it’s been a – I been down there a number of times, this year, and it’s been really exciting.

 

Martin: Wonderful! I – it would be so great if some part of the government would look at that, our government, I’m talking about, and use that as a model to do something with.

 

Leslie: Yeah, well that’s what I want to have happen, Martin. I mean, I want to – it’s, you know, I’ve got to get back into trying to work with officials within our government, and do want to write up a document in which I lay out the way they work, as an example, and the other exciting thing is that an official from that Chilean agency will be at this conference in June, and he’s The International Affairs Director, and he’s never been spoken at any conference, before. He’s the guy – deals with all, from the base of Chile, deals with all the other countries, and he speaks 7 languages, you know, and he can deal with the –

 

Martin: Wow!

 

Leslie: – agencies in China, and he’s in touch with, sort of, the whole universe, and around the world, of the official world investigating this, so it’s going to be very interesting to have him at the conference, and I think, you know, one of my interests in this conference is to, sort of, have the DVDs, which we are going to make of all the lectures, which Kent is going to make, to have them be, sort of, something that can be used to provide a message to the official world who might want to learn something about, for instance, how the government in Chile works, or how the government in France works with respect to this, so we’re going to have these, sort of, on the record statements, now, from these 2 officials, and I think that’s a really important, in terms of what you just said about creating, you know, letting our government know that there is a model for how this kind of a thing can work, and it does work.

 

Martin: That’s great. I spoke with a gentleman named Clas Svahn http://www.ufo.se/information/organisationen/svahn.shtml from Sweden. He was on our past podcast. They have a very similar way of doing things. It’s not official, but it’s more of a scientific look at what’s going on, and there is absolutely no ridicule, according to Clas Svahn, himself.

 

Leslie: That’s fantastic. It’s interesting you bring him up, because I know that Kent Center also invited him to speak at our conference, and he – the only reason he couldn’t come was ’cause he was on a family vacation at the time –

 

Martin: Oh.

 

Leslie: – but, yeah, I think he is one of the really good – his organization is one of the better ones in the world, and I agree with you that they’re going about it in the right way, and they’re – they seem to be taken very seriously, which is terrific.

 

Martin: Yeah. I was on your Facebook page, oh, I would say, maybe, a month ago, I’m not really sure when it was, and there was something that was going to be revealed from Chile. Can you talk about that?

 

Leslie: Yeah, that may have been this case that the official agency in Chile investigated over a period of many months, which occurred last September, and a very, very, unusually strong case, and I’m fortunate enough to have been given exclusive access to this case, ’cause I’d been down there, and I’d been briefed on it by the agency, there, and I’m going to be presenting that case at the conference. Permission has not been given to talk about it, yet. It has to go through various governmental channels in Chile before it can be released, but –

 

Martin: Oh, wow! Governmental channels, really. It has to do that. Can you give us a little teaser, maybe?

 

Leslie: Just to make sure – I mean, everything in Chile is made public. They don’t keep secrets, there, and they even have a law that doesn’t allow them to keep secrets, but it just has – we – they have to make sure that the investigation is absolutely complete –

 

Martin: I see.

 

Leslie: – you know, and that the necessary authorities have signed off on the case before they can actually make it public, so it’s just a matter of timing –

 

Martin: I see.

 

Leslie: – but, yeah, well, what’s fascinating about this case is that it’s a multiple–witness case, and it involves – it took place at an Air Force academy, and it involves 2 videos of the same phenomenon, so we have 2 videos that show the same phenomenon, and I just, you know, it involves formations, and we know the government was able to find out that it absolutely could not have been airplanes, because they have access to all the data that document airplanes, there, so that’s about all I can say about it. It’ll be really fascinating to people. I guarantee it.

 

Martin: Okay.

 

Leslie: It’s really, really a strong case.

 

Martin: So, by the conference you’ll be able to talk, completely, about it.

 

Leslie: By the time the conference happens it’ll have gone through what it needs to go through in Chile, and it’ll be – I’ll be I’ll be able to present it, show the videos, and talk about what the process was that they went through to investigate it, and read, you know, there’s transcripts of interviews with the witness, and all kinds of data that they’ve accumulated on this case, so I – it’ll be really fun to present it. I think people will be blown away by the case.

 

Martin: Well, let me ask you something. Have you been in Chile, itself, when something was going on, and actually had some type of involvement to see how the process works?

 

Leslie: Well, I’ve – I haven’t – I wasn’t actually in Chile when there was a sighting, if that’s what you mean, but I’ve been there, in the office, and, sort of, watched them work, and, also, have lots communications with The International Affairs Director, who’s a very close friend of mine, also, but he, sort of, keeps me in the loop of how things are unfolding, so, throughout the investigation of this case that I’m going to talk about, for instance, you know, I was kept informed of what they were learning as they learned it, you know, just through Skypeing and talking this – the agency, so, even though I have, you know, there’s a lot you can do without actually, physically being there, but I have been there, and see how they work, but I’ve also been, sort of, kept in the loop on a daily basis when they’re involved with researching cases, so I just feel very aware of how they work, and how they draw on outside sources, and how everybody cooperates with them. It’s very – been very clearly demonstrated, to me, through seeing them work on various cases. It’s so inspiring to think that, you know, if that could only happen, here, even – I’m in here I’ve only been – I been saying, you know, even just one staff person. We don’t, necessarily, have to have 4. Let’s just have one person who can be a sort of point person for this issue, and who can cooperate with agencies like the one in Chile, like the one in France, who can be internationally plugged in with the rest of the world, and, of course, discriminate. You don’t investigate every person that calls up and says they’ve seen lights in the sky, but you investigate the cases that are really worthy of investigation, in terms of – that have enough – have a lot of data, that have multiple witnesses, you know, that have, hopefully, military or police involvement. There’s a discrimination that goes on, but there’s so much that could be done by just having one, even one or two people, and I think the important – the most important element, actually, of having a U. S. Government agency, like that, would be the message that it gives to the scientific community in this country, and then, of course, beyond that, but the message is: we, now, recognize – we, in the government, now, recognize that there is something, here, worthy of investigation. That’s all they would have to be saying by putting a staff person on this. They’re not saying: oh, we’re being invaded by ETs, or anything like that. They’re just saying: well, there’s something, here, that we should look into along with the other countries that have already been doing this for a while, and that’s all, and by just saying that it lifts the stigma against the topic for the scientific community, and, therefore, the –

 

Martin: Right.

 

Leslie: if the stigma’s lifted, because the government has legitimized this, then the scientific community is free to get involved, and, hopefully, over time, to acquire resources and grants and support for the work that needs to be done, and, then, hopefully, that could lead to some kind of an international scientific effort to try and get to the bottom of what this actually is. I mean, that’s, sort of, the idealistic vision that I have, and I think it just starts with – it could, even, just start with one person in The U. S. Government being assigned to this.

 

Martin: I –

 

Leslie: That’s –

 

Martin: – think they’d rather spend billions on finding dark matter.

 

Leslie: Well, dark matter’s also fascinating, but, yeah, why not just make this one more – the, sort of, cutting–edge issues that the scientists explore just like they do dark matter, black holes, and, you know, these gigantic particle accelerators that cost millions, or billions, of dollars that they have to shoot these particles around?

 

Martin: Right.

 

Leslie: I mean, why not put a little bit of money into this, as well? Imagine what could be done if the best minds made a decision to become proactive on this, and to really go after it?

 

Martin: Absolutely.

 

Leslie: Imagine what they could do to, really, learn something, you know. We – and the problem is that the other countries have done a lot of great work, but, I think, without the United States involvement, yes, we’re going to continue to have great investigations of cases, but we already have so many case investigations that establish the reality of the phenomenon that it’s just, sort of like, we need something more than that, now, ’cause that – that’s not enough to solve the problem, so that’s why the other agencies feel, around the world, that we need the United States involvement, because they could, sort of, up the ante, and bring in a lot more resources into this quest than these countries can ever do just operating by themselves. It can only go so far, and, yes, they can do great case investigations, but, as I said, it’s really – we have that. We have that many, many times over, and it’s not enough to push us over to really open the door in a new way that is what’s needed, you know, in the way that will really change the perspective, and actually solve the mystery of what these things are. That’s what needs to happen.

 

Martin: Yes, so, Leslie, thank you so much. This has been very interesting, again, and I – I’m excited to have you back on, several times, as we go along, here, but, again, the symposium is on June. Can you give the dates one more time –

 

Leslie: Sure.

 

Martin: – please?

 

Leslie: The symposium is June 29th and 30th in North Carolina, and there is a website, which is The Center For UFO Research: North Carolina, and it’s on my Facebook page, and my book page, as well, UFOs On The Record, and I will be there along with some absolutely fascinating, leading people in the scientific approach to all of this, as well as witnesses, military witnesses, and so on, and, so, I just hope that people will come out for that, and thanks a lot for giving me the opportunity to talk about it, Martin.

 

Martin: All right, Leslie, thanks, again.

 

Leslie: Thank you, very much.

 

The End

 

Music by: Killawatt – Capa

 

 

 

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