Martin Willis: I’m with Chris Augustin, http://www.aliensthetruth.com/Personal.php?ID=39 and I’m in Gorham, Maine, and I see on you card, here, you’re a alien/UFO/paranormal investigator, and your website is aliensthetruth.com.
Chris Augustin: Yep.
Martin: I don’t know anything about you.
Martin: So, let’s – who are you? What do you do? And why are you here?
Chris: Okay, it really depends on how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go, so the short version is I’ve always been interested in science fiction, and I started watching a lot of movies and television shows about it, which led me to the movie Independence Day, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629/ and then I saw a lot of the elements covered, there: government conspiracies, Area 51, alien abduction, UFO sightings, and I said: you know what, there’s got to be some back story, some actual cases, or something, that that was all inspired by, so from 1996 on I really just started investigating it, initially as a hobby, and then it really took over my life. By day I am – I work in IT. I am a senior technical analyst, and I, pretty much, have a secret life, at night, investigating people’s UFO and alien experiences. I used to to a lot of ghost hunting. I’ve been through crop circle research. I’ve done a lot of things, so –
Martin: Wow, but you have a cool license plate.
Chris: Yes, I do. I have – I’ve recently got that. It’s UFO guy.
Martin: UFO guy. What kind of feedback are you getting from that license plate?
Chris: It’s funny you should ask. A couple of weeks ago I had just gotten it, and a guy pulled me over. He rolled his window down, and he’s like: hey, what’s – I like your license plate. You think that world’s going to end in December? I’m like: oh, geez. No, no it’s not, but thank you for asking.
Martin: So, somehow that’s tied in with UFOs.
Chris: Well, a lot of people feel that, and they link UFOs to every major prophecy that comes out. When the millennium was heading they’re like: oh, my god. Aliens are going to land. I’m like: no, and the same thing with 2012. Oh, the Mayans were really talking about aliens returning. They were their gods, so, yeah. Aliens are going to invade in December. No.
Martin: They just ran out of space in their little discs on the calendar is, basically, what happened, I think.
Chris: And even – they’ve interviewed Mayan shamans and holy men and they’ve said that their – it is not the end of the world. It is the end of an age, and that can be perceived however you want to take it. I think it’s much more of a spiritual thing than huge, cataclysmic pole shift, earthquakes, floods, etcetera, so I don’t buy into that, personally.
Martin: Now, where do you live?
Chris: I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Martin: Okay, now I see you consider yourself an investigator. Can you talk about that?
Chris: I’ve worked with MUFON http://mufon.com/ for several years. I –
Martin: Okay, are you an investigator for them?
Chris: I am not, and –
Martin: Not officially.
Chris: No, I am not because I, frankly, don’t have the time to devote to it, and I also don’t have the passion for doing the field work. I really don’t want to be the boots on the ground. I don’t want to go out there interviewing the witnesses and ruling out Venus and taking dirt samples and it’s not – the passion is not there, for me. My primary interests lie in people’s experiences and the impact that it had on them. Having gone through my own experiences I was, initially, just a researcher. When I found this stuff to be interesting I then became an experiencer. I saw something. I, then, had direct contact, missing time, potential implant, and then shared abductions which I explored through hypnosis, so, having gone through all of that, I find the biggest element of this that no one really addresses, short of the group that’s here, Starborn Support, http://starbornsupport.com/ which is spectacular, is what impact it has on people who have experienced these things.
Martin: Are you finding commonalities between your experience and other people’s experience?
Chris: Ironically enough, the first speaker today, Jim O’Connell, http://terrestrialextrasthefilm.com/html/biojim.html described a triangular–shaped bruise he had in relation to one of his experiences, and –
Martin: Did you say bruise?
Chris: A triangular–shaped bruise, yes, on his stomach, I believe. He said near his navel, and, with my experience, I woke up with a triangular–shaped bruise on my leg, on my lower left leg, and then – faded and turned into puncture wounds which I then had ultrasounds on and there’s an object in there and my tendon was cut, so, yes, absolutely commonalities. He spoke of a lot of things that resonated with me, and at a discussion, last night, to a smaller group of people I described a sighting I had of a triangular–shaped object over southern New Jersey, where I used to live back in ’99. A member of the audience, after the discussion, came up to me and said: I saw the exact same thing, so –
Martin: In – you mean the same type of craft.
Chris: Exactly, it’s 3 points of light, three white points of light on each corner, and a dim, red light in the center.
Martin: That sounds a lot like the one that was in Belgium.
Chris: And that’s why the picture that I used was of the Belgian Triangle, because it almost matched exactly.
Martin: Wow! There’s a lot of theories about, of course, the debunkers are always talking. Let’s just talk about the Belgian Wave, http://ufos.about.com/od/trianglecasefiles/p/belgium.htm for instance, but when the case, like that, has so many sightings – I mean, I had Leslie Kean http://ufosontherecord.com/leslie-kean/ on this podcast, and she told me there were books of reports. Big notebooks full of them, so you have that many witnesses, and it’s just – I still find it profound that it’s so hidden from regular society.
Chris: Well, I think that, and Peter Robbins and I drove up from Philly, together, so 8 hours of –
Martin: 8 hours of Peter.
Chris: – in a car ride – yes, exactly, and that’s, totally, in a good way.
Martin: Yes, I agree.
Chris: He pointed out a lot of things, and we discussed so many different topics, and he believes that there’s a containment program that the government has been enacting since 1947, and his evidence, and he gives a lecture on this, shows that, around July of ’47, all the major news publications completely changed the way that they were reporting UFO sightings.
Martin: Are you talking about post–Roswell?
Chris: Exactly, so up to that point people were still reporting things, lot’s of weird, and they were very objective. They were interested. They were curious, and they’re like: wow! There’s some really strange stuff going on. Post–July it was condemning the witness, attacking the witness, taking every conventional explanation, even if it didn’t, really, fit, and shoving it down people’s throats to make them forget that it ever happened.
Martin: Still do, today.
Chris: Absolutely. It hasn’t changed in 60 plus years, so you’re absolutely right. The amount of sightings that have happened are worldwide. It’s not a U. S. phenomenon, and the amount of people seeing them – I just finished reading Dr. Lynne Kitei’s http://www.thephoenixlights.net/Bio.htm book http://www.thephoenixlights.net/Book.htm on The Phoenix Lights, http://ufos.about.com/od/visualproofphotosvideo/p/phoenixlights.htm and there was a lot of additions from 2010 on, and the entire city saw it, and people would not let it go, and the military just kept coming back when they were forced. Oh, it’s just flares. Here, we’ll drop some. Everyone in the city knew it looked nothing like it. They’ve done image analysis on the heat signatures of the light sources. It doesn’t match anything from this planet, yet every documentary you watch, every special, every news broadcast still goes on about: oh, they were just flares when there’s documented evidence against that.
Martin: Plus you have The Governor Of Arizona, at the time, Fife Symington, http://www.fifesymington.com/ actually coming clean that he actually saw this thing, and this is a mile –
Chris: A mile-wide craft, yep.
Martin: – wide craft, or so. I mean, it’s just, that total thing is just so amazing that it was sighted by so many people. Lynne Kitei was, actually, on this podcast, and I was thrilled to have her on. You take someone like her, someone – a medical doctor who, actually, puts her whole reputation on the line to get the truth out there. I really respect that.
Chris: Well, it was a very tough battle, for her. She stayed anonymous for quite a few years because she was, still, practicing. She was still a doctor and did not want it to, really, interfere, did not want to be in those circles, but the evidence, the amount of things that she, and a lot of other people, were experiencing was just too great to continue to not come forward, and she made the decision to, and I – she was, actually, here for a conference last year, and I, once again, spent a bit of an extensive car ride with her taking her to another event to speak. She had 2 things booked, and she shared a lot about the event, and it just really touched me, and that’s why I had to read the book, and I was definitely inspired by what she wrote.
Martin: I think it’ll show itself again, as well.
Chris: Oh, absolutely, and it continues to, and what’s interesting is the native people, in that area, have been reporting it for hundreds of years, ’cause they’ve talked to Indians there and they’re like: oh, yeah. We’ve seen them for years. We’ve accepted them. They’re our ancestors, and they’re, like –
Martin: The Star People.
Chris: Exactly, so it’s nothing new to the area. It’s just different generations seem to pay attention and others don’t.
Martin: Now, what, for the person listening to this podcast, what are they going to find on your aliensthetruth.com?
Chris: I really started back in 1996 cataloging some of the more famous incidents, so I would produce my own review of them, and give people a good background history. I then –
Martin: Is this like blogging?
Chris: No, I mean, it’s – I have ton – like documentaries. I have tons of personal abduction accounts, people with, like, writing samples, people with pictures of beings, everything. I’ve been to Area 51. http://ufo.whipnet.org/area.51/ I’ve got my entire trip video there, where I –
Martin: You mean you been close to it?
Chris: Oh, no. I crossed the border.
Martin: Are you serious?
Chris: Oh, yeah. I’m dead serious. I went by myself, back in ’01. It was a month before 9/11, and I tried to do it, again, in ’05, but my wife wouldn’t let me.
Martin: Wait a minute. Did you dress up with, like, a bush?
Chris: No, and, to tell you the truth, it was very easy to cross. They – the border isn’t a fenced border. It’s just little metal spikes every 10 to 15 feet.
Martin: But, and signs, too, right?
Chris: And sign at the road, itself, on the border.
Martin: Now, you were, actually, risking your life, because they –
Chris: Well, I believe this cause is enough to do it.
Martin: Because they threaten to kill.
Chris: Lethal force is authorized. That’s right there, on the sign, and I’m aware of that. They also said photography is prohibited, and here I am with my video camera recording the sign of photography is prohibited while I’m waving to the camo–dudes up on the hill. To give you a bit of back story, Area 51 is about 140 miles north of Las Vegas, and off the ET Highway, http://www.rachel-nevada.com/ethighway.html Highway 375, is Groom Lake Road. http://www.dreamlandresort.com/area51/gl_road.html It’s 8 miles of dirt road. It goes straight up to this border, where there’s the big signs. As you’re coming down the road they have seismographic sensors on public land to identify that a car is coming. They have a contracted security firm, Wackenhut Security. http://www.g4s.us/ They come up, they go up on the hilltop and they watch your every move. There’s video cameras –
Martin: So, you actually see – you actually physically see a guard up there?
Chris: Absolutely, and they are posted at a guard shack post on the other side of the hill. There’s cameras up at that top of the highest peaks overlooking the border, and what I did was I climbed the hill, out of camera range. Halfway up they sent a chopper out after me, and it circled me a few times, and then went back to the base, but I kept going, and, as I got to the top, I was out of camera range. I was out of line of sight. I said: screw it. I stepped over the line. I looked left and right. I stepped back. I didn’t get my ass shot off. I didn’t have the sheriff come and arrest me, and I crossed in Area 51 and lived to tell about it. How many civilians can say that? So –
Martin: So, is it just one step?
Chris: One step. One step, both feet, and back. I wasn’t going to run, but I don’t think I’ve ever said this, on any show, but I was contacted by a Delta – former Delta Force member, over the years of my research, who had been stationed out there. He told me all throughout the valley there are tunnels. The security firm that they have is, really, smoke and mirrors. Yes, they’ll come and arrest you, and all that, but let’s just say some anarchist group decided to storm the base with guns and bombs, whatever. As soon as you would make any movement into their border they would, literally, pop up behind you, and you wouldn’t even know that they’re there, so there’s supposedly tunnels –
Martin: Because of the tunnels.
Chris: – throughout the entire area, so if anyone tried to attack they could easily surround you. They would never see you, and it really depends on how far down a conspiracy rabbit hole you want to go. I hate to keep using it, but it’s true. There’s supposed to be, like, a rail system connecting that and a lot of other secret facilities throughout The United States and around the world.
Martin: You said you researched – you studied ghosts. Well, one just opened the door.
Chris: Well, that a whole nother environment.
Martin: That’s another podcast.
Chris: Yeah, exactly.
Martin: You sound like a real adventurous guy. This kind of – this is fun. What other things have you done?
Chris: I, well, in the ghost hunting realm, I don’t know if you want to delve into that, but I did a lot of it in the early 2000s, how I met my wife. We had both shared –
Martin: She living?
Chris: Yeah, she had a paranormal interest, as well, and I did a lot in the Philadelphia area. I was on a lot of local radio show working with different groups, and I met some friends, and we met through my ghost hunting, but I would provoke, just as you see in all these ghost hunting shows, and, at one time in Fort Mifflin, it’s a very known, haunted location in the Philly area, something made itself known. I felt a very dark, tense feeling that said it didn’t want me there. I just felt I should not be there, but I was putting out energy. I was, like: yeah, come on you’re – show yourself. You’re wasting my time. Nothing’s happening, so I put out something. I got something back, and I’m not claustrophobic, but it’s very low ceilings, you’re in pitch black, you’re in a group of people, and I – tape recorder, digital camera, all that stuff, but I felt something, and that was about the only real paranormal thing that I’ve had, aside from later years. My wife has always seen things, and dismissed them because of her upbringing. She’s like, you know, it’s nothing. It’s my imagination, but we’ve encountered things, together. She’s seen things in our house, like a tall figure with a top hat in period clothing, and a man did die in the 20s or 30s in our house. It’s an old row home, and I’ve seen balls of light come down the stairs and turn the corner, so, I mean, it’s a lot of things. Our dogs have watched things in the house. She’s seen a flashing light. The dogs would look in the kitchen, so, a lot of that stuff, but the ghost hunting, it was really – that was much more of a hobby, that element, and I know quite a lot about it. I have a lot of theories about it, but my primary focus has been more on the abduction and interaction with the alien phenomenon. It’s changed, and my focus continues to change, over a period of time. It was ghosts, ghosts, ghosts. Then I was secret bases, and then, now, I’m in abductions and people’s reactions to them.
Martin: Do you – if you had to say there’s a percentage of the people that you talk to, or you listen to, what would you say the percentage is of the people that are really telling the truth compared to B.–S.–ing?
Chris: I’ve definitely encountered people who I have not believed, at all, and I thought were, truly, doing it to get famous, or just get on Maury, or Oprah, whatever, with these stories.
Martin: Forgot about Maury.
Chris: Yeah, well, the majority of people who are coming forward you can just tell by the way that they carry themselves, by the way that they convey the story, if they’re earnest, if you can see they’re about to break into tears, or they’re shaking, and, it’s – obviously, on the internet it’s a lot more difficult how you convey emotion in an email, but it’s the nature and the impact and the human element of their story that, for me, strikes a chord. When the people come, and it’s just, like: oh, yeah, and this, this, this, this, and this, and then they’re just like: hey. They’re just throwing it at you, and then this happened, and this happened, and this happened. I tend to question it, a bit, so I’d say the majority of the people who are talking about it are usually hesitant to talk about it, and that people who are, like, totally just: I, you know, I have to shove this down people’s throats. Guess what. This happened to me, whatever. Maybe not, and –
Martin: Yeah, I agree.
Chris: – some – it has to pass the sniff test. I mean, how do you prove one way or the other? It’s nearly impossible. I’m an anomaly, because I have physical proof to back up my experiences. I have ultrasounds, and I’ve – I don’t have pictures of it, but the TSA backscatter X-ray machine picked up my implant, and I had to get patted down for it. It happened in January of this year, so I’ve had more than one source prove that something is wrong with my leg, and that there’s an unknown body there, and I’ve never been shot. I’ve never been hit with shrapnel, but I’ve had a lot of other experiences that seem to be alien in nature to support it, so –
Martin: Do you have a plans to have it looked at to be removed?
Martin: You like it there.
Chris: Yep. The short answer is absolutely. I think I used to believe, or I used to say to people it’s the only evidence I have that I really experienced something, and that was a part of my life where I was still unsure. I still doubted my own experiences. Over the past 2 years I’ve come to terms with it. I’ve really accepted that something happened. I don’t have a concrete answer for what it was, and I’m okay with that. The fact that this happened and that this is there – I have a gut feeling that it’s supposed to be there, and I feel nothing negative about it, so I’m leaving it. I have no interest in messing with whatever happened. It happened for a reason, and, literally, over the past, maybe, year or so I’ve really started to accept that things happen outside of my control. Things do happen for a reason, and you just need to trust that, and it’s meant for something, and I feel that what I’m doing through my research, and being there as an outlet to talk – for people to talk to me about their experiences – how many researchers in the UFO field do you have that have never seen something? Most of them. Stanton Friedman, http://stantonfriedman.com/ one of the foremost experts –
Martin: Never saw anything.
Chris: Exactly, however he’s a, like, a hundred percent convinced that something is going on. I am a – as I said, I’m the anomaly. I’m an investigator who’s had the personal experiences to back up my theories about it, so then, when people can come to me, I know exactly what they have been through, so I can relate.
Martin: The only thing – I have had a sighting, I mentioned on one of my podcasts, here, and that’s the only thing that’s ever happened to me.
Chris: But don’t discount that. That’s – maybe that was all you needed.
Martin: That was all I needed, because –
Chris: There you go.
Martin: – that’s how the show started, really, basically. I want to – I’ve never really said how this show started, and, for the listener, I’m just going to say a quick recap. I was on a different podcast, and I mentioned the fact that I had this UFO sighting, and the guy ridiculed me the whole time, and he was actually pretty funny. It was actually quite funny, but he contacted me 2 weeks later, and he says: the downloads of this are off the chart. He said that. He had a weekly show, and he said something in this show made it download, and I realized it was the UFO experience. I got – then said: let’s contact someone, and Stephen Bassett http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/stephenbassett.html was the first one to respond, so I said: let’s record with him and see what happens. Well, the guy that was doing the podcast bowed out, so this is how this podcast started. My very first podcast was Stephen Bassett, and I started this URL, and it’s been a blast, and it’s fun meeting people, like you.
Chris: Well, that’s good. I think, and one of the things that’s interesting about my experience is that every time I started to, like, step away from the field, and I would, kind of, get bored or disinterested with it I would experience something that would push me right back into it, and, once again, I would dismiss that, but now I’m looking at it as: this is the right path, for me, and, to give you a bit of history on that, I was raised Catholic, and I butted heads with the church almost right away. I’m like: what do you mean evolution isn’t real? What are you talking about the world is created at 6,000 years ago? This is B. S. So, I was kicked out of our youth group. I could not be a leader. I left the church. I became an atheist. I became very depressed. I hated life. I hated being in school. Nothing was good. I would go to sleep, at night. I’m like: what the hell am I living for? I could die tomorrow and go nowhere. What’s the point? And, then, it wasn’t until I got into ghosts I’m like: okay, there’s something to this. I looked at it from the scientific side. I’m like: people are recording things that science can’t explain, so let me go in this direction. The same thing with UFOs. They don’t match our airplanes’ capabilities, but people are recording them, and in college I was a computer science major, but my real passion was my religion and philosophy courses, and, like, sociology and things, too. I understood why people needed religion, and then I saw the parallels between every culture’s religion and the concept of ancient aliens. They all described the gods, plural, coming from the heavens, and teaching them things that they had never, they could never imagine. Sounds like aliens coming down and giving man technology, or giving man knowledge, and, then, that got me into Chariots Of The Gods, http://www.amazon.com/Chariots-Gods-Unsolved-Mysteries-Past/dp/0425166805 and all of those types of books, and then it – here we are, today.
Martin: Yeah, I’m a recovering Catholic, as well.
Chris: Oh, welcome to the club. There’s a big difference between religion and spirituality. I now believe in – I label God as energy that’s a part of every thing in the universe. Every living being is a part of that energy, and I am not religious because I believe that religion is spirituality corrupted by politics.
Martin: Ah, there you go. You know, I’ve never brought any of that up – stuff up in this podcast –
Chris: Well –
Martin: – but you said it –
Chris: – first time for everything.
Martin: You said, to me – you, basically said, my thoughts as – pretty much in a nutshell. I thank you for that, and who knows what the listener will think, but that’s okay.
Chris: It’s my –
Martin: They can believe whatever they want.
Chris: Exactly. Exactly right.
Martin: As long as it doesn’t involve killing people, right?
Chris: Yeah, you got it.
Martin: So, where do you think the future of your life is going to go with this whole situation?
Chris: Well, I think what I really feel compelled to do is to continue to put myself out there, continue to share my experiences, and provide an outlet for people to share theirs. I think the – and if you look at the numbers 1 out of every 10 UFO sightings, just 1, is reported, so 9 out of 10 people are afraid to talk about the strange things that they’re experiencing, either seeing something in the sky, having some weird dream where they’re husband, wife, whatever had the exact same dream and they have strange bruises and they just chalk it out. Okay, it was weird. Forget about it, so by coming forward, by sharing these types of stories, I’m promoting the message that this is a real phenomenon. It is okay to talk about it, and it’s because of people, like me, more and more people come forward. I, honestly, feel that my purpose in all of this is to be that outlet, to be there for people. I mean, if that ends up me writing a book, not really interested in doing it, but I wrote – I’m going to be in 2 books next year. I wrote a chapter for someone’s book, and I did an interview for someone’s book, and it’s all about my experiences. My sight used to be about: oh, here’s this famous sighting. Here’s this. Here’s this UFO document, or, you know, but anybody can catalog that. What do you think Youtube is? What I’m focusing on, now, is my experiences. What I encountered that nobody else has. It’s my story, and I feel I need to share that.
Martin: But I – didn’t I just hear you say, earlier, that your website is a place where people can go to share their experiences, too?
Chris: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Martin: Is it a forum format, or what is it?
Chris: There is a forum, there. The other element of it is people who have been willing to come forward, and share them, and their experiences are online, so it is a good collection of those types of experiences, so I’m not saying it’s just mine, but it is a vehicle for other people, as well, and I didn’t mention it in my talk, today, but when I had the missing time incident another one of the people I was conversing with, over a period of several months who was a repeat abductee, had an experience that night, and she emailed me, out of the blue, that, the day after, that you’re not going to believe what happened. They came last night, and I told her: well, you’re not going to believe what happened. I had my first, that I knew of, abduction experience, and that’s happened more than once. I have conversed with a lot of abductees, and, by conversing with me, they have noticed a increase in their own experiences, or something weird would happen, and that was scary, to some people, and they, really, didn’t welcome these events, and we lost touch, and they weren’t okay with it, and I understand that. Other people have come to me and they’ve said: I’ve been taken. My parents have been taken. Now my daughter’s being taken. She come – they come and tell me that she gets pulled through the ceiling and the little doctors come and play with her, and how do we tell her that this is happening? How do we tell her it’s not your imagination? Something’s physical actually happening to you, and I help people with that. I talk them through that, and, like I said, it’s through my experiences that I can offer advice, so, right now, I think that focus is taken – not taking over, but it’s a much larger part of what I’m trying to do, and I felt compelled to be here, because I felt like it was a vehicle to extend that, just to continue the forward movement, and it just felt right.
Martin: When we talk about abductions one thing that I always think of is why do you suppose they return people instead of just taking them and experimenting with them?
Chris: Well, I don’t think that there’s – my gut, my feeling, based on my encounters, is I don’t think anything malicious is going on. Now, I’m not saying that there couldn’t be some type of negative agenda, out there. I mean, there’s no solid answers in this field. Nobody knows, for sure, and anyone that comes to me and says: I know for – exactly what’s going on – don’t believe them, ’cause it’s all just a theory. I think, just like people, just like there – for there to be light there has to be dark, so there very well could be nefarious beings who have a negative agenda, and are trying to do something, but I think that the majority of people’s experiences are probably indifferent. They’re not positive or negative. They just are, and it’s people’s own upbringing that frames that experience as something positive or negative. Go ahead.
Martin: No, no. You were talking, earlier, you said that you were always into this type of thing. What was your upbringing like? Were your parents open–minded, as far as these things go?
Chris: Not at all. Not at all, and –
Martin: So, you’re the little rebel.
Chris: I, well, my parents and I had a big fight because of the whole church thing. I flat–out told them I don’t believe in God, anymore, and they, like, they – it did not go over well. Big fight, and it took me years – that damaged me for years to the point that I had to go to therapy, because the short version is they threatened to disown me. I’m adopted, and I – it was probably in anger. I was, like, 14, 15 at the time, and they’re, like, you know, we can take you back. Who tells their child that? So, years – I buried this. I never dealt with it. It wasn’t until I was, like, 25, 26 years old I, actually, met my birth mother, and I was in therapy, and I addressed these issues, and we’ve moved forward, and I’ve, now, passed it, but it was that I left the church. You threatened to disown me. Why the hell would I tell you that these things are happening to me? So, I had no one to talk to, so I never approached my parents, and, now, they see me doing events, like this, and speaking publicly about it, and they – they’re just, kind of, dismissive about it. They’re like: yeah, we think there could be life, elsewhere, but you being taken – I don’t buy it, but I’m still their son. They love me, and they don’t have to agree with this, and I don’t need them to, and we, just, really don’t talk about it.
Martin: Yeah, sometimes it’s better off.
Chris: Sometimes you have to agree to disagree, as they say, and, just, leave it alone.
Martin: Yeah, I know you have to get up. You’re running the computers at this event, and you have to run upstairs, so it’s been great, so this is Martin Willis with Chris Augustin, and that’s it for today.