Show Notes, Robert Hastings, Episode 19.

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Martin: I have lecturer, and author of UFOs And Nukes, Robert Hastings on the line with me. How you doing, Robert?

Robert Hastings: I’m doing fine, thank you.

Martin: I was excited to have you on because I had an insurance broker, years ago, that claimed he was in a special task force in the Air Force that investigated UFOs. He claimed that they were around nuclear warheads and tampered with them, sometimes, but he also said that they were seen during the Conflict in Vietnam when there was napalming, firestorming. Have you ever heard anything about that?

Robert: Well, I have to say that that information, as presented, is vague enough that it’s difficult for me to comment in any kind of detail. It is known, of course, that UFOs have been sited near nuclear weapons sites. I’ve devoted thirty–nine years to proving that point through my interviews and document analyses. We can get into that in a moment. It is known, regarding Vietnam, that, at one point, a high–ranking General George Brown, who was noted for being outspoken and probably putting his foot in his mouth, from time to time, mentioned, at a press conference, that a UFO was sited above the Gulf Of Tonkin during the war. I forget the exact date – I think in sixty–eight or sixty–nine, and that, actually, there was a task force of both American and Australian ships near, and fire was directed toward the object, which did not hit it, but one of the American rounds did land on the American – on, an Australian, rather, destroyer, damaging it, and all of that was openly admitted by this General Brown before he got less talkative in the days, thereafter. There are, certainly, other reports of UFOs above the DMZ, the Demilitarized Zone. As far as is publicly known, we had no nuclear weapons in Vietnam. We may have had them on board ships off the coast. So, again, not knowing the details of this gentleman’s story it’s really difficult for me to comment, further. My own interest in this particular topic, UFOs and nukes, began in nineteen sixty–seven. My father, Robert E. Hastings, was a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force. In sixty–six and sixty-seven he was stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana, which was, then, and is, today, this – a nuclear missile base – Minuteman Missiles – and in March of that year there were incidents of reported UFO activity at some of the missile sites. He learned of that from personnel working in the SAGE Building, which was, basically, housing one of the world’s most sophisticated radar systems, and I, independently, learned of, at least, one UFO incursion near the base during my job as a janitor, after high school, at the base Air Traffic Control Tower. An FAA controller, working there, actually pointed out these five unknown targets, to me, one evening. I had developed something of a relationship with this gentleman over several months, and he just mentioned, in passing, that they were tracking unknowns or unidentifieds or UFOs, whatever term he used, and I, subesquently, learned from my father that these same objects were tracked at the SAGE building. So, that sparked my interest. I was, however, still a teenager – really couldn’t do much with that data, however, upon graduating from college – about a year later in nineteen seventy–three I came across news reports and references in a couple of books, by J. Allen Hynek and a researcher named Raymond Fowler, describing UFO activity at nuclear missile sites, including Malmstrom Air Force Base, and a bell went off. I realized that this tied in with what I had been told and what I’d learned previously some six years earlier, and, so I began seeking out and interviewing former and retired military personnel on this subject. Over the past thirty–nine years I have interviewed over one hundred and thirty of them – primarily Air Force personnel, some Navy, some Army personnel. Seven of those Air Force veterans participated in a press conference I held in Washington, D. C. at the National Press Club on September 27th, 2010 – a video that is available online – hopefully you can post a link to that. You and I can chat about that later. There are snippets available online. I have the full video as streamed live by CNN. In any case, those seven gentleman who participated in the press conference were describing incidents involving saucer–shaped objects hovering above their nuclear missiles whereupon the missiles malfunctioned, temporarily were inoperable, could not have been launched. Another of the officers described a UFO hovering above the weapons storage area – weapons depot at an Air Force base in England sending down laser–like beams into that facility. So, very dramatic stuff and if one chooses to read my book, which is available at my website – if one goes on Amazon and buys it you’ll pay scalper rates – you’ll pay three times what I charge at my website, or if one just chooses to read the many articles I posted at my website,, one will find very detailed, documented information about all of this.

Martin: A couple of questions come to mind, and I have watched some interviews with you and I hadn’t heard these questions, really, directly asked. Do they seem to revisit these bases over again, or is it a one–time deal, mostly?


Robert: No, as one will tell – as one can tell from reading the book or, again, even the articles I’ve posted online this has been an ongoing situation. Every nuclear missile base in the United States has been visited repeatedly from the early nineteen sixties through the present day. I am aware of the report, that I’m still investigating, of a sighting near a missile site, A-11, operated by Malmstrom Air Force Base, within the past month – roughly a month ago – July 3rd, and even more dramatically, on October 23rd, 2010, not even a month following my press conference, F. E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming lost the ability to communicate with fifty of its nuclear missiles for over a day. Officially, the Air Force says that it lasted – the incident lasted fifty-nine minutes. They only acknowledged that after the story was linked at The Atlantic website – Atlantic Magazine – now I guess you would call it The Atlantic website, however, they still do not acknowledge a UFO involvement in that incident. Nevertheless, I developed two missile maintenance sources who said that when these missiles went down, and were down over a day, there were multiple reports, by missile maintenance teams in the field, of a huge, cigar–shaped object maneuvering high above the missile field outside of F. E. Warren Air Force Base. I, subsequently, traveled to the area, less than two months later, and interviewed over a dozen civilians who have missile sites on their property, including law enforcement personnel – also, I interviewed them, as well, who told me that there were multiple sightings of discs, cigars, triangles, globes, classic UFOs sited above missile sites both in the months prior to and the months following this incident on October 23rd, 2010. So, if one looks at documents going back to the early sixties, when nuclear missiles came online, you find repeated references – and again, through the years, either in the documents or in the witness testimony, missile launch officers, targeting officers, missile maintenance personnel, missile guards – over a hundred have been interviewed in my book describing ongoing, year after year, decade after decade incidents at these missile bases.


Martin: Now, do they ever scramble jets for these – when these are sited?


Robert: Yes, and there are a handful of documents that describe those interception attempts. They were just that. The documents describe jets attempting to pursue these objects. They either leave the vicinity at a high rate of speed or douse their illumination and drop to a low altitude very near the terrain they’re above, therefore precluding the jets getting down to their positions. They’re – in addition to the handful of documents describing intercept attempts there are many more persons I’ve interviewed who have said yes, we sent jets after them, but, again, as far as I know there were no recorded instances of the jets actually being able to successfully intercept the intruders.


Martin: We can only speculate why this is happening and I’ve heard you suggest that they’re telling us that we’re, basically, playing with fire, which totally makes sense. Have you ever heard of any other people pose a theory as to why they’re doing this?


Robert: Well, let me first say that declassified documents from the former Soviet Union buttressed by the testimony of former Soviet army personnel – this is information that’s been gathered by other researchers, including George Knapp, Antonio Huneeus, and others – indicate that these kinds of incidents, that we’ve been describing, have occurred in the former Soviet Union, as well, during the Cold War era, including missile activations, missiles preparing to launch for some number of seconds, missile disruptions where they were – became unlaunchable, and so on. So, the same type of activity that has been reported in U. S. documents and by ex – U. S. military personnel has been reported in the former U. S. S. R. To my mind, that suggests we have an outside, third party possessing highly sophisticated technology that has been monitoring the nuclear arms stand–off since the end of World War Two and have, from time to time, apparently, interjected themselves directly into the situation by tampering with, and apparently disrupting, these weapon systems. Some persons believe that these reports of missile malfunctions can be explained by an incidental field effect that is some phenomenon associated with the objects. Their mere presence would cause these malfunctions and so, therefore, no intentional disruption was premeditatedly undertaken by those aboard the UFOs or presumably aboard the UFOs. I, however, think that the specifics described in these incidents are such that that cannot be – that is not a viable theory, given the seemingly direct and, in my view, unambiguous interference with the weapons systems. For example, these cases where objects hover over either weapons storage areas or missile sites and direct laser-like beams directly onto those silos. That is suggestive, to me, of a premeditated act – some sort of weapons system being used to disrupt these missiles and/or interfere with the weapons stored in these weapons storage bunkers. So, yes, based on everything I just said a long answer to your question: I believe that the best possible scenario to explain all of this is whoever these guys are aboard these disc-shaped craft have been monitoring the weapons – nuclear weapons stand-off for the last seventy years and have, from time to time, expressed their concerned and/or displeasure to the powers that be in Washington and Moscow – in effect, sending them a message that they are playing with fire by possessing and threatening to use nuclear weapons. I am willing to entertain any other theories, however, I find that persons who advance alternate theories are usually, almost without exception, persons who’ve never investigated this topic, have never interviewed witnesses, have never really analyzed, in detail, the documents that describe them.

Martin: Right. You can certainly tell that their intentions are good because if they can, actually, do what they’re doing then they can certainly launch those babies if they wanted to, really.

Robert: Presumably. Now, what I tell my lecture audiences – I’ve spoken at over five hundred colleges and universities since nineteen eighty–one – what I make a point of saying to persons who attend my lectures is that, while my opinion is yes the intentions are benevolent on the part of whoever are engaging in these acts, I say, basically, no one, including myself, knows the bottom line answers and if one is to look at all the possibilities one might say that whoever they are intend hostility or are malevolent – have malevolent intentions toward the human race and, at some point, plan to invade planet Earth and they, simply, don’t wish to inherit a radioactive smoking wasteland and, therefore, for selfish reasons they have attempted to prevent the launching of nuclear weapons, but, again, that is purely speculative as is my opinion that their intentions are benevolent and that, indeed, they are attempting to shake – figuratively, shake by the shoulders those countries having nuclear weapons.

Martin: Now, you mentioned you lectured at over five hundred colleges, which is quite amazing. The question that comes to mind is: what is your listening audience like at these colleges? Is it mostly receptive and open-minded?

Robert: My typical audience is a mixture of students, faculty and staff members at these universities and colleges, as well as some number of community members. The precise breakdown is impossible for me to say, but my typical audience has all of those elements. I would say that most of the people who attend already are inclined to accept the reality of the UFO phenomenon and are prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt. However, invariably I will get some number of skeptics in a given audience, many of whom are laughing or joking or poking their neighbor in the ribs – be when I start speaking, however, within ten or fifteen minutes you can hear a pin drop, because I am presenting document after document after document and it’s quite clear to everyone, whether they’re skeptics or proponents, that something very real and very important has been going on and has been successfully kept from view – from the public’s knowledge of these incidents, which are ongoing. So, I think I make my point. I think some number of people probably leave the lecture willing to read more about this – investigate it – more about it, online, others have had enough and don’t really need to know more about it, and some of the hardcore skeptics will never believe one word of this until a UFO lands in their back yard and kicks up dust on their shoes. So, all of the responses that one would expect, pro and con, relating to any UFO–related subject are probably what the audience takes away from the programs.

Martin: Now, do you have a question and answer segment?

Robert: Oh, of course.

Martin: Oh, can you think of any questions that come to mind that are typical or has someone provoked some really good discussion from a question?

Robert: I would say I’ve done this for thirty–one years and, so, whatever news stories about UFOs are in play at a given time during that three–decade period – I invariably get questions about this sighting or that sighting, so there’s always that as a background. I get questions as to what are the intentions of whoever are behind all of this, and, again, I reiterate my earlier comments and explain my opinion about what this all adds up to. I get statements from some skeptical faculty members saying – well, they’re rarely questions – they’re more statements that – saying if this were real I would know about it because I’m a professor of – blah, blah, blah, and the point I make to these people is these documents are declassified. Anyone can access them from the agencies and departments of the government who released them, reluctantly in most cases, through the Freedom Of Information Act and these well–learned persons, experts in their own fields, can access these documents as easily as I or other researchers have and judge for themselves what has or has not been kept from public view. So, there’s a fair amount of arrogance and presumption on the part of persons who, again, with all due respect to their expertise in their own fields, really, know nothing about this, although their egos tell them that they do. So, there’s all of that.

Martin: That’s the type of arrogance that keeps science stuck.


Robert: I think there are any number of examples, in history, where the current scientific wisdom said one thing or another was impossible and, then, in subsequent years or decades that information has proven to be valid and is now part of the scientific database in one field or another. So, the notion on the part of persons who think this is impossible to have happened – invariably this will be overturned once more and more data becomes available. Now, I have to say, since we’re on this subject, that there are skeptics, there are debunkers, and then there are, apparently, disinformation agents masquerading as skeptics and, in my view, one very interesting organization that needs to be pointed out to people – it used to be called CSICOP the scientific – see – Committee For Scientific Investigation Of Claims Of The Paranormal, which has now changed it’s name to CSI, Committee For Skeptical Inquiry, is a leading “skeptics” group. What I find interesting is that not publicized in this organization’s published material or in their magazine, Skeptical Inquirer, is the fact that, for over twenty years, the editor of that magazine, Kendrick Frazier, worked as a public relations specialist for one of this nation’s leading nuclear weapons laboratories: Sandia Labs in Albuquerque, New Mexico. One may look high and low and not find references to that in these – this organization’s publications. Also interesting is that Mr. Frazier chose not to mention that fact, that he was a public relations mouthpiece for the U. S. government’s nuclear weapons program, in any of his online bios. There’s no reference even in the one that he self– published to his work for the U. S. government’s nuclear weapons program. Another leading member of that organization, James Oberg, worked for two years at the Kirtland Air Force Base Air Force Weapons Laboratory on nuclear weapons–related work and in one very famous case, called the Big Sur UFO Incident, after two Air Force officers went public with an incident they said involved the inadvertent filming of a UFO circling a dummy nuclear warhead in flight, which, then, shot it down with beams of light – after that story was broken by these two Air Force officers – former Air Force Officers Robert Jacobs and Florenze Mansman – James Oberg wrote very nasty, and in my view threatening, letters to Mr. – Dr., actually, Jacobs, basically saying you have revealed top secret UFO data, which is a dramatic departure from Mr. Oberg’s public stance as being a UFO skeptic who thinks that UFOs doesn’t – don’t even exist. So what he says he publicly and what he said in his letters to Jacobs are worlds apart. I think that’s a rare example where you have somebody masquerading as a skeptic who, really, is more than that being exposed. Dr. Jacobs, probably totally unexpectedly by Oberg, later published his letters, and, so, in addition to the uninformed skeptics who have lots of opinions about UFOs but have never studied the subject, you also have this special class of “skeptics” who seem to have more going on behind the scenes than mere skepticism.


Martin: You have interviewed over a hundred and thirty witnesses. Is that correct?


Robert: Yes.


Martin: And is there any particular case that you would say stands out above the rest, or can you just go over a couple of the real interesting ones?


Robert: Well, let’s start with the Big Sur case. It’s certainly the most dramatic case that I know of in that, apparently, a dummy nuclear warhead flying somewhere above eleven thousand miles per hour is being photographed or filmed, I should say, at Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, when, suddenly, according to Air Force – two Air Force officers, Dr. Jacobs and the late Dr. Florenze Mansman, a disc–shaped object came into camera frame, again flying at eleven thousand miles per hour, circled this dummy warhead for a few seconds, at four junctures fired beams of light that looked similar to lightning bolts at the warhead, which extended all the way from the unknown object to the warhead, directly, and then left the camera frame, and, meanwhile, the warhead began tumbling and fell into the Pacific Ocean hundreds of miles short of its target. Dr. Jacobs says that the following day he was ordered to Major Mansman’s office. A sixteen millimeter version of the original thirty–five millimeter film was being shown to a small group of people, which, he learned later, included two CIA agents. Dr. Jacobs saw this amazing activity on the film and expressed the opinion that they had inadvertently captured a UFO shooting down a dummy nuclear warhead, whereupon, he said, Major Mansman said: Lieutenant Jacobs you are never to say that again – this incident never happened, and it was only twenty years later when Dr. Jacobs began corresponding with former, or actually retired Major Mansman, did he learn that these persons in the grey suits were CIA agents who, apparently, cut out the key frames of the film, reeled it onto a small spool, and took it with them as they left his office, and Dr. Jacobs began to be harassed as soon as he broke this story in the early eighties. He began to receive threatening – actually death threats over the telephone. Seconds after, someone blew up his mailbox with, probably, an M–80 or some high explosive – type firecracker. All sorts of threats were being directed toward him by another member of this CIS – CSI group that I mentioned: Philip Klass, and, so, he really paid the price for going public with this story. Now, there are detailed, private letters that I have published at my website, between Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Mansman from the nineteen eighties, in which they are describing the UFO incident in detail, the subsequent events, the confiscation of the film by the CIA, and all of this. These letters were never intended for publication, and I only released them in two thousand six, at which point I began publicly discussing my knowledge of this case. I find it interesting that in nineteen seventy– four the New York Times, a very august paper of record, supposedly, in the United States, published a story indicating that in the summer of nineteen seventy–three, some ten years after the Big Sur UFO incident, unnamed army spokesmen began talking to The New York Times about incidents involving the tracking of multiple UFOs flying near dummy warheads, in flight, being launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base. These incidents, again, occurred, approximately, ten years after the Big Sur incident. So, what both Dr. Jacobs and Dr. Mansman have described, apparently, was not a unique incident. I would, further, say that the next, probably, dramatic incident that could be addressed would be one reported to be reported to me by a former Minuteman missile launch officer, David Schuur. His name is spelled S–C–H–U–U–R. His testimony appears at my website. David Schuur told me in two thousand seven that, we believe, in the fall of nineteen sixty–six, as best as can be pinned down, he was present at a underground launch capsule, Echo Flight Launch Capsule outside of Malmsberg – excuse me, Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota, when, suddenly, he got a frantic call from his security guard at ground level saying that a UFO was being observed and reported by other security guards as it moved from missile to missile. There are ten nuclear missiles in a given flight, so, this – over several minutes this object was moving from missile to missile in Echo Flight. David Schuur said that while they were dealing with this information, suddenly, their consoles, down in the launch capsule, lit up indicating that these missiles were preparing to launch. That is, when the object hovered over a particular missile the launch console indicated that missile was preparing to launch and, according to David Schuur, he and his commander had to flip what’s called the inhibit switch that would preclude or prevent this missile from being launched. No sooner had they done that then they got another report from the guard saying that the missile – the UFO, rather, had moved on to another missile. Seconds later that missile, suddenly, was preparing to launch, according to their indicators down in the console, and they had to do the same inhibit procedure. He said that probably happened somewhere between six to eight times. He could also hear on what’s called the primary alert system, a radio system from capsule to capsule at the base, that other missile launch commanders were getting reports from their guard of this same object moving from Flight to Flight, and, apparently, it passed over every Flight at Minot Air Force Base, that evening. When David Schuur got back to base the next morning was his commander. The operations officer for his squadron said: nothing to report, nothing to discuss, go home, and he assumes that there’d been some briefings of missile teams who had arrived at the base, earlier. Their missile sites had been located closer to the base. They were debriefed and by the time he and his commander arrived there was no further discussion necessary, so that’s, quite obviously a dramatic incident. What I find interesting is that, according to former Soviet Army personnel and even one declassified Soviet government document, a, virtually, identical incident occurred in the former Soviet Ukraine on October 4th, 1982, whereupon a disc– shaped object was observed by hundreds of military personnel at this missile base, and at one point, according to both the documents and the witness testimony, as this object hovered directly over a intermediate–range missile base some number of missiles – unspecified number of missiles, suddenly, began activated and their launch countdowns began, and, apparently, lasted for fifteen seconds before this anomaly ceased, and everything returned to normal. So, the kind of thing that David Schuur described at Minot Air Force Base in nineteen sixty–six, apparently, occurred, at least once, in the former Soviet Union in nineteen eighty– two. There are other cases. A number of them are described in my book and during my press conference involving, on the other hand, rather than missile activations, missile disruptions where, temporarily, missiles malfunctioned. What seems to be involved in those cases is the guidance and control systems of the missiles, which would allow the missiles to hit their targets in the Soviet Union, suddenly become inoperable and have to be replaced. The hardware actually has to be changed out before these missiles become operational – quite clearly dramatic things going on behind the scenes, according to the persons who were there when these incidents occurred.

Martin: That is really something. They’re, basically, knocking it out. It’s, kind of, really making a statement. When these incidences are documented by the military how do they, exactly, explain these things away?


Robert: Well, they don’t explain them, unless the stories are exposed. You have unofficial spokesmen stating – spokesmen stating, unofficially after the fact – I mean, many of these cases did not come to light for years or decades after they occurred, so people who would have had a direct knowledge of them, at the Pentagon and so on, are, really, no longer in a spokesperson position. However, when these incidents are brought to the attention of people currently at the Pentagon you get this standard response of the Air Force no longer investigates UFOs and have not done so since nineteen sixty–nine. Project Blue Book found no evidence that UFOs ever impacted national security, quite clearly not true, based on these documents and witness testimony that are now in the public domain, but, basically, the Pentagon is sticking by its story that they have no interest in UFOs because no incident involving national security has ever been reported – blatantly false. So, what – that is the standard response that one will find when these stories hit the airwaves, so to speak, nowadays.


Martin: Now, you mentioned this gentleman being hassled. Are you aware of any other witnesses being hassled or have you ever been?


Robert: I’m aware of one other case, among the one hundred and thirty individuals – one hundred and thirty plus individuals who I’ve interviewed – the exact total is probably pushing one forty. My last witness described something that occurred to me less than a month ago. I’m only aware of one individual who has, subsequently, been harassed and that was informally, by other Air Force colleagues who told him that he had screwed the pooch by talking to me, and that certain actions had been taken involving his military records to, in effect, punish him. Future employers would look at these references being added to his service record, what’s called a DD–214, to make it unlikely that he would be hired in any responsible capacity, in the future. Now, I’m not going to identify this individual, although he is mentioned by name in my book. The book was published in two thousand eight. I only learned of the harassment of him by his former colleagues in the last six months, and, so, that was a single case, that I’m aware of, in addition to Bob Jacobs, who I mentioned previously, where someone had been harassed for having gone public with this type of information. As far as myself, I went on the lecture circuit in September of eighty–one. I got my first national publicity in December of eighty–one. Within a couple of months there was an interesting development in that when I would call various Air Force sources, retired – former, retired Air Force personnel and interview them over the phone, tape record their conversations – their statements to me with their permission, invariably, for a number of years, after I hung up the phone, within, sometimes, seconds, sometimes just five or ten minutes, sometimes an hour later, I would get a call where someone was on the other end of the phone saying nothing. I could hear background noises and then after about thirty seconds or a minute this person would hang up. That happened to me repeatedly, invariably, as I said, following these taped telephone conversations with ex – Air Force personnel. My view is that someone was, clearly, monitoring my conversations with these individuals and was, simply, trying to make a point that they were keeping an eye on me, they knew who I was talking to. That type of harassment was ongoing, intermittently, over this – the last three decades. I’ve had problems with emails that I won’t go into where, suddenly – just generally I’ll say certain key emails between ex – Air Force personnel and I, suddenly, would not arrive even though we have had no problems reporting information to each other on other occasions, and these kinds of patterns of activity had been consistent involving Air – ex – Air Force sources or, in some cases, other researchers with whom I’ve traded information. It would seem to me – it seems to me that someone is making it difficult – is attempting to disrupt communications between me and certain individuals who have information to provide to me. So, aside from that, no one’s ever knocked on my door and threatened me or anything like that. There was one incident that I asked for, and I will freely admit it. In the spring of nineteen eighty–five I was lecturing at the University Of Nevada, Las Vegas, and I made some statement during the question and answer period about a secret base that I had heard about in the Nevada desert, north of Las Vegas, this was some three to four years before Area Fifty–One became a household word, or term, and I had gotten information from a former Air Force security guard who worked there about this secret base, and, so, when I asked my audience to provide information about that base without violating the security oath – I was emphatic about that – I saw people in my audience in Air Force uniform who, presumably, worked at Nellis Air Force Base, even though I was clear I didn’t want anyone violating security I didn’t hope to learn more about this rumored base. Well, no one came up to me and gave me additional information, but my student sponsor said: my dad’s in the Air Force, he works at Nellis, he’s here, tonight, and he wanted me to tell you that the base commander was sitting in the back row, and I made some snide statement like: I hope you learn something, and, coincidentally or not, for the next day a heavy–set man in a dark business suit driving a white Chevy shadowed me, very openly, around Las Vegas several car lanes back, and just as I was leaving town on the interstate, heading north into Utah, and it was clear I was leaving the Las Vegas area, this guy gunned it, sped up, and was, suddenly, on my bumper. We’re both doing sixty, sixty–five miles an hour, and he was less than a car–length behind me. I could clearly see his facial features in my rear-view mirror, and, after what seemed like an eternity – it was probably thirty seconds, or less, he eased back, and turned around, did a u-turn, and went back into town. So, again, I think I asked for that particular harassment and I suspect that the base commander had gotten an OSI agent – Office Of Special Investigations agent, or someone at Nellis, to make a point, so to speak.


Martin: Well, we’re getting pretty close to running out of time, here, but I have a couple of more questions for you. What is the typical thing that a debunker will say about one of these incidences?


Robert: As far as the missile incursions where these objects are reported by multiple missile personnel and even mentioned in documents, sometime, bunkers – debunkers, rather, will say: oh, this is a military exercise to test readiness. My missile officers and launch officers, targeting officers will say: nope, because, first of all, no readiness exercise would ever degrade the readiness of our missile systems. That is, no test would involve the actual shutting down our missiles to test their readiness because if the President Of The United States, suddenly, decided to launch war and bomb the Soviet Union those missiles would be unavailable. So, these launch personnel and targeting officers and so on say, quite clearly: no, what happened to us could not be explained as a readiness exercise because we lost large numbers of missiles. Then, you get your – you get your classic range of skeptical responses in which they say: oh, these persons were just seeing stars or meteors or balloons or aircraft at – under unusual atmospheric conditions, and so on, but if you look at the actual testimony of the eyewitnesses, the missile guards, they’re describing saucer–shaped craft that are huge. They’re quite near and/or quite large, hovering low over the missile sites – big as the side of a barn, and, simply, cannot be explained away as unidentified aircraft or weather balloons or stars. So, that’s the typical type of response you get from skeptics, and then, as a last resort, when someone like myself responds to those criticisms as I just have, some debunkers will just come back and say: well, the witness have – the witnesses have to be lying. These persons are making up a story, for one reason or another, and, quite clearly, when you look at the collective testimony, both in the documents and the witness affidavits –  all of the seven Air Force personnel who testified at my press conference provided affidavits describing their experiences – those are available at my website – it’s clear that these persons were not lying about what they are sticking out their necks to report.


Martin: And, the final question I have, for you, is about your press conference and I wanted you to talk a little bit about that and what type of impact do you think that made in the public’s eye?


Robert: Well, the co–sponsor is a former Air Force Captain Robert Salas. Bob Salas was involved in one of these missile shutdown incidents at Malmstrom Air Force Base in March of sixty–seven. He and I were totally unprepared for the degree of media coverage we got. We were hoping we would get a fair amount of press, however, our press release, prior to the press conference, went viral. At one point there were – if one Googled the title of the press conference there were two point four million hits on Google, so, quite clearly, it made a big splash. I was told by one savvy media watcher that it was the most viewed, most shared news story on the Reuters news agency website for four straight days, during the time frame leading up to the press conference. So, quite clearly, we made our point. We got very objective media coverage from CBS News, ABC News, The Wall Street Journal, major newspapers in Europe and Asia and South America. I mean, it just went worldwide. Perhaps not unexpectedly, after a few weeks of stories and residual stories it faded away, and no, to my knowledge, not one single major news organization in any country ever followed up with any of the sources, even though we made our sources available, these Air Force personnel could have been contacted by the media for follow–up interviews. Not one organization followed up on this story, to my knowledge, and so, there may have been a couple of radio stations at various places, but no big name groups ever pursued this, for whatever reason. So, I think that is indicative of the, kind of, just, sort of, lack of attention that the mainstream media gives to the UFO topic in general, and even when you have dramatic information being presented by credible sources about UFOs impacting nuclear weapons’ functionality that story is, basically, a one–week story and then it dies, sad to say.


Martin: In the last podcast, with Leslie Kean, she brought up a very good point, because she’s a journalist, herself, about how the media is so quick to drop something, and then it’s old news, instantly, no matter what it is, which is really quite sad but it’s, kind of, like the attention span of the public, out there, is – everything’s a flash in a pan and then move on to something else.


Robert: It is disappointing. I will, frankly, say that I’m sixty–two years old. The internet was nonexistent until, let’s say, the last twenty years, or even less. As far as people blogging at websites, I have to say that I – blogging about UFOs is one of my pet peeves because, as far as I can tell, nine out of ten people, whether they’re pro– or anti–UFO, have no idea what they’re talking about. They have never investigated this subject. They’ve never read the documents. They’ve never interviewed witnesses. They’ve never even read a book or two, or magazine article – any type of independent information that would credibly address, in detail, these kinds of incidents and, therefore, they are expressing uninformed opinions. I could care less whether someone likes what I write. Getting back to the Facebook system, I would much rather prefer that someone read about what I write and, whether they believe it or not, make some informed comment rather than saying something that has no relevance to the argument, one way or the other. I know that out of the seven billion people on Earth not everybody is going to devote their life to investigating this, but, certainly, the degree of interest and the degree to which people really take the time to research, their knowledge of this subject is abysmal. I mean, people who spend time day in and day out blogging about UFOs  – very few of them will ever make some effort to learn whether what they have to say is factually and – accurate or relevant to the discussion at hand. I don’t think that is a healthy development, in terms of public awareness of this issue.


Martin: Kind of muddies the water, actually.


Robert: Yes.


Martin: Okay, well, thank you so much, Robert. This has been a great interview. I’ve really enjoyed it and I feel like I could go on for another hour or so. Thanks so much!


Robert: My pleasure! Thank you.


Martin: And, again, your website is


Robert: It is.


Martin: And, the book is available at a slashed–rate price on that site. Is that right?


Robert: It’s a basic price of $23.95 plus shipping. What scalpers do is buy copies and then resell them on – sell them on Amazon for up to a hundred dollars. So –


Martin: Wow!


Robert: – it’s your money.


Martin: That’s something. Okay, well thank you so much. So, this is Martin Willis with Robert Hastings and that’s it for today.


The End

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