Show #618 Notes: Roger Stankovic | Les Velez | Jeremy Ray

Simulcast on KGRA Digital Broadcasting, YouTube, Facebook, & Rumble | Tuesday, July 16, 2024 @ 7:00 PM EDT (-4GMT)

 

BIO: Dr Roger Stankovic, MUFON’s National Director for Australia & New Zealand, is a former neuroscientist, who completed his doctoral thesis at the University of Sydney in motor neuron disease, and is now a lecturer in human pathology, at the Department of Technical & Further Education, Sydney, Australia. As a member of the UAP Medical Coalition, Roger is now combining his skills and knowledge in neuropathology, to research the effects of UAP’s on the human central nervous system. Proximity to a UAP can cause physical effects, also known as, ‘Anomalous Health Incidents’ (AHI).

BIO: Les Velez has led OPUS for more than twenty-five years, from the organization’s initial

inception through more than two decades of building connections across the industry, ultimately forming the OPUS Network. Les is also the author of The Unknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien Contact, which explores the mystery of non-human intelligences through a series of first-hand accounts of extraterrestrial encounters from OPUS Community Members.Find out more about the OPUS Network, or inquire about getting help: https://www.opusnetwork.org/

BIO: Jeremy Ray, formerly a STAR team investigator for MUFON. The last 20 years Jeremy has been conducting UFO investigations in California, Texas, and Colorado. In 2008 he was promoted to STAR team investigator and worked with Bigelow Aerospace Advance Space Studies (BAASS) on high level UFO cases. Jeremy has represented MUFON on several radio and television shows. He has also been a guest speaker at MUFON symposiums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to the show. I’m Martin Willis, your host. And we have three great guests that I met at the symposium. I’ll talk about that in just a second. That’s the MUFON symposium in Texas. The first is Roger Stankovic, and he talks about the Havana effect on UFO witnesses. And it’s a very interesting, you know, I ask him a lot of questions about these are prerecorded three interviews. But I asked him a lot of questions about the Havana effect or Havana syndrome, a very bizarre situation. And then there’s a Les Velez and he’s talking about Opus. And that’s basically a support group for people that are having paranormal experiences or, you know, abduction experiences, things like that. And last but not least is Jeremy Ray. He’s a Full of energy, a great guy. And he talks about being with Robert Bigelow’s team years ago and being on the star team for MUFON for many years. Also, all these three are really great guests. And I have to say that I really enjoyed myself. I was at the MUFON symposium. And that’s me laughing. I did a lot of laughing. A lot of people did. We had a really good time. Then my good friend who’s been on the show many times, Chris Lambright, came up to visit. He only lived about a half hour away. This is me with Bob Salas. And it was good to hear him speak as well. Fine gentleman he is. So I’m going to get started right here in a minute, but I also wanted to talk about a great blog that was timely because one of the symposium topics was Majestic 12. So Charles Lear did a really thorough, great blog. I’ve had other people that actually did some research in the documents and, you know, commend him for this great one blog this week. It’s the MJ 12 documents, who, what, where, and why. When? There’s no why. We don’t know the why. I don’t think we’ll ever know the why on those. And there’s a lot of… No, I’m not going to do any spoilers. Just check it out at podcastufo.com. Thank you all that support the show. And I’m ready to get these interviews rolling. I’ll be on chat and I’ll be back at the end of this when this ends. And it goes about an hour and 36 minutes total. I think something like that. And here we go. All right, I’m with Roger Stankovic. Roger, welcome. Thanks, Martin. Good to eventually catch up with you. Yes, yep. So you’re a listener of the show, which I think is great. I love Australians. I am. I’ve listened to you for, I think I could say decades. Yeah, so it’s great. There’s such a listening audience there. I think it’s amazing that it’s always like second or third for listeners when you have such kind of a small country compared to, you know, so many others. 26 million-ish or something like that? Oh, no, we’ve got 20-odd million in Australia, 26 million maybe, last time I checked. Yeah. So it’s still comparatively small compared to the United States, obviously. And why is there so much interest, would you think? I’m not entirely sure. We do have a few UFO organizations and MUFON obviously is represented there as a chapter in Australia and New Zealand. And basically there are other UFO organizations and people are just generally curious about the topic. And we keep up with the Americans in terms of… what you guys are doing here in Congress and the developments and the hearings and stuff like that. And I think that there’s quite a few people that are following that and that’s what makes it entertaining and also interesting. There’s not much happening in Australia in terms of congressional hearings or anything like that. As a matter of fact, I’ve talked to someone, they said that it’s sort of, in negative terms more or less with the government. Correct, yeah. They haven’t been looking at it since the UAP topic since I think 1996. I think myself and other researchers like Grant Levac had looked at approaching the government and I actually approached the Deputy Prime Minister about this and said that they should open their to reopen investigations into UAPs again through the Air Force. But I think it’s just a waste of time and it’s not worth studying from a scientific viewpoint. But when the Five Eyes situation came up between what America was doing here through Arrow and our attendance there has been established. You sort of wonder what they’re actually doing, whether they’re actually lying to us and saying that, you know, we’re not looking into this, but actually attending the Five Eyes Arrow meeting in the United States. So, you know. Well, you mentioned Air Force. That’s where a lot of people have been complaining because the Navy seems to be taking it. And I’m talking about the United States. Navy seems to take it seriously. But, you know, there’s kind of silence from our Air Force on this whole thing. You think they would be the front runners on trying to figure this out because it is, you know, national security. one way or another, whether these things can be figured out what they are or not, it’s still national security. And they’re supposed to secure the skies. There’s some wonderful, the Navy does a really good job at that too, but it’s just, you would think the Air Force would be. It’s always been the Navy, the United States, and I haven’t ever figured why. Yeah. It’s interesting. Well, a lot of things happen out at sea too, you know what I mean? True. So, but yeah, it’s funny how that works like that. But so let’s talk about what you’re going to be talking about, which is the Havana syndrome. And does that in any type of way relate to the UFO? topic in any type of way? Well, it does in my talk. So basically I talk about Havana syndrome and how, you know, what the medical issues are with the victims and also how it came about initially in Havana, Cuba. And I talk about the politics between the United States and Russia. I just touch on that. But I also, through some research, have tied in the UFO phenomenon because basically I feel it’s inextricably linked to the Havana syndrome through some of the research that I’ve done and some of the people that I’ve talked to. So you’d have to probably wait for the talk because that’s drawing a long bow, you know, like saying that to start off with without any context. So basically, I do have… sort of evidence to tie the two together in terms of some statistics that I’ve found. I’ve tried to get statistics through the CIA. I’ve put in a foyer to actually work out actually how many people are being affected um over a period of time but that’s been classified ever since um they started investigating it um and my foyer hasn’t actually they haven’t actually come back to me they’ve received it but they haven’t actually come back with the yes or no you know this is could take a while sometimes it takes a while yeah yeah yeah so I can’t really uh what I’m trying to do is correlate the number of Havana Syndrome victims that happen with developments in the UAP phenomenon, the topic. So for example, there has been, recently since 2017, you mentioned the Navy, the Naval videos that were released. Sort of like coincide with the first patient that got hit with Havana syndrome. So I believe that, and there’s other, other, slow leak disclosure events that have been happening that sort of like correlate with an increase in Havana syndrome. So I think that what Haim Eshed said, basically he was the chief security guy in the Israeli Space Force. He said in 2020, I believe, that non-human intelligence doesn’t want its presence disclosed. And so it could be a pushback for disclosure that we’re doing. So there’s a tug of war between Congress and the deep state in the sense that the public is pushing Congress for transparency and disclosure of the UOP phenomenon. But I believe that maybe there is pushback from non-human intelligence and that’s coming from the, that’s coming like the pushbacks coming from the deep state. but through non-human intelligence, directing deep state to not disclose their presence. And I believe that they’re fighting back with, you know, like targeting individuals. And that’s just my theory. I have spoken to one of the victims who says that he’s patient zero not the one in 2016 but another one and basically he’s confirming that my theory is partly correct so and he’s done a lot of work on the topic basically yeah so that’s what my talk is going to be about in a nutshell uh-huh and so what is I guess what is the the overall on what they think Havana syndrome is and it’s like targeted frequencies or something like that? Yeah. So, so, um, basically people, uh, it usually targets, um, diplomats and the intelligence community. So from the United States, um, and some Canadian diplomats as well, but so it’s targeting a specific population, um, uh, and an occupational population within, um, the United States. And what happens is that basically these diplomats or CIA staff could be overseas or could be in the United States and they can be in their kitchen where they’re like, just having a meal or washing the dishes and they can be hit without a direct line of sight. So basically what happens is that they feel this enormous pressure in the head, a ringing sensation, they hear a sound and that can cause vertigo, dizziness, nausea, ear pain, nosebleeds And it happens for a period of time. And then when they remove themselves from that position or go to another area in the house or outside of the house into another, somebody else’s house, it stops. But the sensations are still there, but not as bad. And they can develop mild traumatic brain injury, including all those other symptoms. It’s really unusual in the sense that these people get targeted without a direct line of sight so it can’t be someone looking at you through the window and then targeting you with a pulsed microwave. There is no direct line of sight and no weapons have ever been found and the FBI and CIA and several other intelligence agencies have been involved in actually trying to determine whether it’s a foreign adversary and they’ve come up with nothing So it’s really weird in the sense that basically these people are being targeted for some reason and it creates what’s called a mild traumatic brain injury in about 50% of the people that get targeted. and it’s almost impossible. We don’t have a weapon that can actually just produce what’s called an immaculate concussion. So basically instead of, you can get concussed if you hit your head on a brick wall or someone hits you over the head with a hammer, you can get concussion from that and traumatic brain injury, but these people hear a sound and then get what’s called an immaculate concussion. So they have a similar brain damage to someone that’s been next to an explosion or in a car accident. It’s an anomalous medical condition that’s never been described as well. So it’s really quite a weird thing that’s happening. And do you have an idea about how many victims there are? Yeah, so in December 29, 2016, there was the patient zero, the first person that got hit, and they were in Cuba. And then 35 individuals after that all told were… a bit later on, say 2017, mid 2017. And then these statistics are just what I’ve got from the media and also from medical people that have done research on these patients. So they’re not official statistics from the CIA because CIA, the Intelligence Committee has never released any statistical data and no one’s ever questioned it. And I’m sort of thinking why, they haven’t come up with a foreign adversary and I think it’s, it’s, you know, like there’s nothing to it, then why not release the statistics? Because we could probably join the dots, you know, I don’t know. And then now they’re saying there’s, you know, possibly a thousand people that are affected. And that was like probably 2000, 2022, there was probably about a thousand or 2023. Um, but those statistics could be dodgy because basically, um, some of those people affected, um, in that cohort of a thousand, uh, could be, you know, it could be psychogenic as people think, oh, you know, I’ve got tinnitus and, you know, I’m a bit dizzy, you know, I’m a diplomat. Could I have Havana syndrome? But, um, you’d have to get, um, a proper diagnosis from a medical professional that’s actually qualified, um, in diagnosing Havana syndrome that would tell you, you know, like definitely you’ve got, you know, what we call, you know, anomalous self incident or not. So the statistics are a little bit, they could be a bit skewed. Yeah, I could see that. What are some of the places besides Havana that people claiming where they had this happen? Yes, initially they were getting targeted in Havana in 2017 and then it spread to Hanoi in China. I think there’s Serbia, in Europe, there’s been in Geneva, there’s been cases, there’s been two cases in Australia. So there were American diplomats that came to Australia in 2021 that were hit. Nearly every single continent has been affected except Antarctica, although I actually did speak to whistleblower Eric Hecker. I think that’s his name. And at Contact in the Desert, he told me that people have been targeted in Antarctica as well. So every single continent in the world has been, there’s been an incident, at least one incident with the Havana Syndrome. Now, you know, kind of tying this all together, maybe, maybe not at all, but I think of the work that Gary, Dr. Nolan has been doing, and it’s kind of related to the brain changes. Is there any parallels? Yeah, there’s a lot of parallels between people that actually have close encounters with UAPs and people that have Havana syndrome. The only difference is that the people that have close encounters have radiation, sometimes have radiation effects, and also they can fall unconscious and die as well, whereas targeted people So anomalous health incidents or Havana syndrome. There haven’t been any reported deaths apart from about three suicides, possible suicides. And so no deaths, but the symptoms are very, very similar. A lot of them overlap between the close encounters and the Havana syndrome cases. Wow. Yeah. And is there also like a PTSD type of element to this or is it more just like brain, you know, the physical brain changes? Yeah, I think PTSD could be a factor in some of the cases and PTSD can produce some of the symptoms, I suppose. But you’d have a little bit of brain changes in PTSD, but not as much as what you see in Havana syndrome. It’s white matter damage. So basically they’ve done MRIs and they’ve done volumetric studies and they’ve seen white matter changes to the extent that it’s statistically significant. So you would never get anything like that in PTSD. Yeah. Well, it’s very interesting that they’re targeted because, you know, one of the thoughts that I would have just, it’s just a random thought, but is there any… type of natural phenomenon that could possibly create this type of thing. But then you go back, well, then how come it’s diplomats? That’s the strange thing. Yeah, there was a prosaic answer to this question when we were looking at crickets. So basically there was what’s called a short-tailed Indies cricket. which is endemic in Cuba and also in the Bahamas and places around there. So basically people were hearing this sound which sounded like this cricket and then two entomologists got involved and actually did a recording of the cricket sound and then they did a recording of the actual Havana syndrome sound. So the Havana Syndrome sound was recorded on a cell phone by someone, a victim that was actually being attacked. So they heard the sound and they suffered the symptoms while they were recording it. And that’s called the AP or the Associated Press Recording. And that was compared to the cricket sound, and it was the echo of the cricket sound. So it was not a field cricket, but a cricket as if it was inside a house. And so they compared the spectrograms of both, and they almost perfectly matched. And so the entomologist was saying, and the FBI were interested in this, and they said, look, it’s just the crickets that are causing this Havana syndrome type sound but the problem with that theory is that the crickets are only found in the southeastern parts of the United States but people have been hit all around the world so that cricket camp is only in like one location in you know the So they’re not in Havana, basically? They are in Havana, but the thing is that they’re not, and they’re also in the southeastern parts of the United States, but they’re not found in Europe, they’re not found in South America and Australia where people have been hit with Havana syndrome. So it’s not the cricket, but for some strange reason, the cricket sound matches the Havana Syndrome recording. There was an advisory panel called Jason, which is a group of elite scientists that were put together by the government to actually look at this problem. they tried to solve that you know like the reason why you know people were hearing this sound and they were saying that their conclusion was that it was an adversary that was actually mimicking the cricket sound to subvert the attack so they were just trying to subvert the attack through mimicking a cricket sound oh you mean they were just absolutely just trying to put it out there so people would think that it was that absolutely It sounds crazy, but that’s the conclusion that came through. So, I mean, I don’t know who could possibly think of something like that to actually, you know, like, it’s a brilliant thing to do. Yeah, it would be. Yeah, yeah. And what are some of the working theories at this point? Like you said earlier that there’s nothing that we know that we could actually… make to do this type of damage, right? I mean, there’s no technology that we have. We do have directed energy weapons, but they’re mainly used for, like, we’ve got patents for them as well, but I’m sure that some of them are out there, but they would kill you. They wouldn’t cause mild traumatic brain damage, and they’re not, you know, their deployment is not going to produce a subtle change in your brain, as you can see, like mild traumatic… the FBI and the CIA have said that no adversary, China doesn’t have this weapon, Russia doesn’t have this weapon, it doesn’t exist. Let’s just devil’s advocate, you have this technology, could it be used in a very light way and not kill someone? I don’t know, but I don’t think so. I earn a side of caution by saying that it probably can’t be tweaked so that you could actually cause mild traumatic brain injury. The problem being is that When this, whatever, if it is a weapon, it can actually cause inner ear damage to what are called the otoconia, which are stones in your ear that help you with your balance and linear acceleration. So what it does, it displaces those stones stones in your ear, which help you balance, and it also disrupts them. But that damage doesn’t cause brain injury. So even if the weapon’s causing that, how does it cause the brain injury? Nothing really makes sense, and it’s a real puzzle, but I don’t think that anyone has a weapon that’s If they do, I’ve been told that it’s probably reverse engineered from non-human intelligence. So that’s what I’ve been told. Oh, it’s really something else, this whole thing. And what made you have an interest in researching this? So I’ve been involved with MUFON. It was through the UAP Medical Coalition. So it’s an organization that’s run by Ted Rowe, who’s in Alaska, Anchorage, Alaska. So he organized this group, and I wanted to become, a member of it because I was a medical professional, I’m a professional, I’m actually teaching now, but at one stage I was a medical professional, I wanted to get involved, I was interested in UAPs, and so I wanted to get involved in the group because they were looking at people that were affected by um, ontological shock of, um, disclosure. Plus also they might’ve seen a UAP. So let’s see the ontological psychological effects of ontological shock of these patients and also people that have been exposed to close encounters. And, um, you know, we, we do have people in Australia that have been, um, had close encounters and they’ve had, you know, radiation burns and, and, uh, the like. And so we’re, we’re out there as sort of like a, um, a first responder to these cases where we can listen to the victims and basically then we will understand, we’re probably gonna be more understanding than a psychologist or a neurologist or anyone else in the medical profession because we’re privy to UAP information in terms that we’ve been studying it, we’re researching it. So basically, we’re probably best suited to look at these people and manage them. Now, has any pilot, like while in flight and having an encounter, that you’re aware of had any type of… symptoms of any kind? You’re talking about pilots? Pilots while they’re flying and have an encounter. I don’t know of any instance where they’ve had an encounter like that, although I think there have been reports of pilots having close encounters and then having some effects, but I haven’t heard anything of Havana syndrome. Yeah, well, I meant in general. I didn’t mean just the Havana-type syndrome. I meant in general, there actually have… issues after they’ve had an encounter while in flight yeah um I think I think I’ve read something about that and I think there might be something out there but I can’t commit to saying that it’s real like I mean there’s you know there’s patients out there there’s people out there that have had this there’s pilots out there but um yeah so sorry I can’t yeah yeah sure and as far as uh radiation there’s no crossover with any type of effects of radiation and also what you’re looking into right I mean this is this is more like a frequency thing right yeah yeah it’s there’s no radiation so it it’s targeted to one specific area of your head and also um it doesn’t affect any other organs And also it doesn’t affect your peripheral nerves. So it’s basically the central nervous system. So the central nervous system consists of the brain spinal cord and the brain stem, but not the nerves coming off the brain stem or the spinal cord. So in a sense, if it was microwave radiation, you would expect it to affect other organs and it doesn’t. So how do you develop a weapon that’s gonna cause like a subtle brain damage and that’s not gonna affect any other organ without a line of sight, so you can’t see the patient, you can’t see the person if you’re targeting them. It’s gotta go through brick and whatever because they’re inside a house. So it’s gotta be a pulsed microwave or something like that. And it just sounds impossible. But these patients are actually, are definitely suffering from the symptoms. There’s been tests, there’s been MRI tests, there’s been blood samples that have been taken for markers and whatever, and the MRI, screens were, sorry, the scans were actually taken by Dr. Hoffer from the University of Miami, from the initial cohort of patients, the naive, what we call the naive cohort, meaning that they weren’t exposed to, they didn’t know anything about Havana syndrome because it was never, it was never like, it was around, but no one ever knew what it was. It wasn’t, the name wasn’t coined at that stage. And so these patients, didn’t have any idea what was happening to them. They did MRIs and they did what’s called a VEMP test and other tests to see whether their inner ear organs were affected and all of them had disrupted otoconia in their middle ear and some of them had mild traumatic brain injury. So that first cohort proves that something is definitely happening to these people. It’s a real Medical issue and that they’ve been compensated for it by the US government as well. So it’s you know, they’re acknowledging it from a you know, like a In medical insurance point of view. Yeah Wow, that’s really something and I I hate to ask this question, but you know, you mentioned that there are weapons that we have and that would actually kill someone and is that also like a brain thing that they focus on or is it a full full organ all the organs? I think they wouldn’t be using on humans. I think they’d probably be using it in warfare, like instead of sending a missile, you’d send out a directed energy weapon to pull down a plane or a drone or something like that. Oh, I see. Yeah, so they’re directed at military targets, like planes, drones, missiles, etc. So they’d be used for that purpose. And it’d be quite a bit of energy to bring something like that down. We certainly have enough ways to kill each other. Yeah, exactly. Well, this has all been very fascinating. Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure to meet you and hang out with you. And thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure meeting you as well. And thank you for giving me the opportunity. You bet. Okay. All right. I’m with Les Velez. Welcome. Thank you. Pleasure to be with you. Yes, it was nice to meet you. And let’s talk about Opus. This is something, well, I don’t know, maybe we should dive into your background with your interest in this topic you’ve been with. Well, I have to go back when I was 11 years old, living in Connecticut. I was coming in the house. It was dark already. It was October, late October. And all of a sudden, I looked to my right, and here’s this object, this oval object emitting this internal illumination, totally silent, moving over the tree line. And it scared the hell out of me. And I ran in the house, tried to get my father to come out. And by the time he came out, it was gone. And he says, oh, it’s probably just a beacon of light reflecting off a cloud. Well, I didn’t believe it. I went to the library, picked up some books. Happened to be George Adamski’s books. So I really got into it. but you know after a while it kind of faded just you know I went in went to college you know went into the service got married had a couple of kids in 1985 I moved from connecticut to california and I picked up the san jose mercury news and I saw that stanton freeman this nuclear physicist was going coming to san jose city college to talk about ufos and the government cover-up And oh my God, it was like somebody threw the switch. And I got, oh, I gotta go see this guy. So I did, and I expected to see a handful of people. Well, the auditorium was packed. He gave his incredible presentation as he usually does. And on my way out, MUFON had a table set up in the foyer. And so I stopped there and I found out that they had a monthly journal that they publish. And so I decided, okay, I got to get this. They, you know, talking about the cases they get involved. So I did that. And after a while, that wasn’t enough. So I found out that they had a field investigator training course. So I decided, OK, I’m going to get involved with that. And I did. And I passed the test and became a field investigator. And the cases that I got involved with, with this more senior investigator who had been doing it a while, that these cases were not only people saying that they had sightings, but they were telling me that they had contact with non-human intelligences. And the first case, I was very much a nuts and bolts kind of a guy. But the first case, I was quite skeptical. And then the second case came along, and it was the same thing, and the third case, and the fourth case. And it was like, OK, there’s definitely something going on. So what is it? So one day, one of the people that I was working with said, do you know of other people having similar experiences? And I said, well, I happen to do. I happen to know somebody. And so next thing I know, I’m facilitating a support group in my office. I had a business out there in California. So these people are telling me incredible stories about their experiences. And I got a call from the international director one day saying, there’s a reporter in your area that would like to talk to a field investigator. Would you be interested? And I said, sure, I’ll be happy to. Well, we had this nice meeting and he wrote up a nice article. And shortly thereafter, I got a call from a woman that was living in Carmel, California. And she said, I’d like to understand what’s going on with my brain when I’m in contact with these off earthly intelligences. And I’m saying to myself, how the heck can I possibly help her? And so then she said she was working with an emergency room doctor down there. And that got my interest because I had a doctor friend, Dr. Eugene Lipson, who happens to be the co-founder of our organization. Unfortunately, Eugene passed away a number of years ago. So I said, look, why don’t we go down there? You can meet this doctor, and then we can find out what’s going on with this lady. So we went down there, and as we entered her home, there was a picture on the wall, and The picture was her standing on the back of a vessel in beautiful crystal clear blue waters. And so I asked her, I said, so what’s this all about? She says, oh, I was down in the Caribbean helping these treasure hunters. And I said, well, how were you helping these treasure hunters? She says, well, I was in contact with the captain of the galleon that had gone down. So we looked at each other and said, really? And what we found out that she had had a near-death experience. And after which she became very psychic and started to have these contacts with these off-earthly entities. And so the rest of the afternoon was her telling us stuff about ourselves that there was no possible way she would know it. We’ve never had contact with her or anything. So we came away that afternoon and how can we possibly help people like this? So that afternoon kind of got us thinking about setting up an organization. And then in 1994, OPUS, the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support, became a 501 , recognized by the IRS, which always cracks me up. Paranormal and IRS, I don’t know how that goes together. But anyway, so Since then, we’ve set up various mechanisms to help people that are having contact. And as it turns out, the paranormal encompasses a lot of things, whether it’s spiritual awakening, kundalini, poltergeist activity, demonic possession. I mean, it’s all over the place. But as it turned out, most of the people that come our way basically tell us that they’re having contact with non-human intelligence, which, you know, the Greys, the Reptilians, the Nordics, the praying mantis type, our military. And so what we’ve done is set up three things right now. to help these people. One is a totally confidential online support group, which is totally international. And we have over 400 people now that are in the group that talk 24-7, talking about their experiences, asking questions. And then we also have a referral network of mental health practitioners and hypnotherapists that if a person is looking for that kind of help, we can point them in the right direction. And then the last thing, which is a more recent addition to our organization, is our EST, which is our Experiencers Support Team. Sort of like what MUFON has as far as their ERT. And I’m also a member of the ERT as a research consultant. because I’ve done research with MUFON that goes back in like 2007 where we took 71 people that claimed that they had contact with non-human intelligence and 51 people that were a control group and What we found after they took these various psychological tests that nobody in either group had a psychopathology. They were totally sane. Just like what John Mack used to say. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we found out that they were not fantasy prone, which a lot of debunkers talk about. found that they came back with a worldview that was changed. In other words, we need to be better stewards of the planet. We need to be better to one another, which is all very positive. We also found out something that is very interesting, which needs further research, is that the temporal lobe activity in the experiencers was different than the control group. And Gary Nolan from Stanford University has done some MRI tests on people that claim that they’ve had contact. And they found that in the caudate putamen area of the brain, there was a lot more connections with these experiencers. and they exhibited psychic abilities telepathic capabilities and it seems to be generational in other words if they have it their parents probably have it their grandparents have it so that brings up a lot of interesting questions you know is this something that was directly related to an abduction or was this something that you know their DNA was manipulated you know eons ago so there’s all types of questions along those lines that are absolutely fascinating It makes me, you know, when I first started looking into this topic and really got involved, I thought, well, you know, the abductees, that’s kind of a step too far. It was a little hard for me to swallow the whole thing. And then, you know, after speaking with Travis Walton and the guys in the Allagash incident and a few others, it’s like it just feels like, and it kind of makes sense, like whoever it is that’s coming here, would want to know more about, you know, the intelligent, quote, unquote, I don’t know if we’re that intelligent, but the intelligent species on the planet. And it makes me wonder if they also look at animals too. But here’s the thing that makes me wonder and questions I’ll ask you and I know it’s just it’s all theories first of all is I don’t know that if we know for sure where they’re coming from I mean it could possibly be another dimension it could be another time it could be all kinds of things but why I guess again this is just speculation but why generational and why the same people over and over Yeah, and I think, again, it’s an experiment that they’ve been following for eons, where they’ve manipulated our DNA. Gary Nolan, again, utilizing his information, where he says, you know, geologists say that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. He says our genome mutates about every 600,000 years. He says, for us really to naturally be where we are as humans, the planet should be 9 billion years old. And if it’s not 9 billion years old, then somebody somewhere at some time manipulated our genome. And so that’s fascinating to me. You know, one thing I’ve never thought of, I’m sorry to interrupt you, but how do they… I wonder how they know for sure when the Earth actually first formed to begin with, because if it’s just through, you know, rock formations and things like that, the planet has vulcanized probably many times with asteroids and all different types of things. It would seem like it would be, you know, a pool of lava, a big ball of lava, and then, you know, and then cooling down again, you know, things like that. I mean, I’m not a scientist. I’m just… Yeah, and neither am I. I have a business background, actually, and we utilize professionals as far as the mental health community is concerned or certified hypnotherapists that have had the proper training. But as far as geology is concerned, I have no basis. But Gary Nolan, who is very well respected at Stanford University, seems like he’s hit on something. And, of course, he’s an experiencer himself. which is really interesting. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just learned that not too long ago. I should say that if someone, you know, I could probably Google the question about how do we know for sure it’s that old. But anyway, I encourage anyone to contact me at martinetpodcastufo.com if you know the answer to what I just said. And maybe it was a silly thing for me to say. No, I don’t think so. It’s a good question. Yeah. Yeah, so… These 400 people worldwide, is it like a chat room they go into? It is a Google group. Oh, and I don’t even know how those work. Is it like a forum? Yeah, basically what it is is that people, if you go to opus underscore support at googlegroups.com, You have to be a member of the group to access it. If you just put that in, you won’t go anywhere. Yeah. Because you’re not allowed in. You have to log in, basically, when you become a member. Right, as a member. So when people contact us, and the way they contact us is to go to Opus Network, one word, opusnetwork.org. And we have a support button. And you hit that support button, and we ask for your name, your telephone number and email. and a bit of your story what it is that’s going on with you and then we’ll we can put them into the support group if that’s what they’re looking for or if they want an est member our experiential support team these are people that have had a lot of experience working with uh experiencers do a triage and they talk to them and find out what it is that you know is going on with them and what they’re looking for and and so then uh once they’re in the support group They can just utilize that Opus underscore support at Google Groups. They go right in. They can say whatever they want, just regular email at that point. And people can respond. Everybody sees it. It goes out to everyone in the group instantaneously. And then people can respond and everybody sees it. So, yeah. And I think the support part of… what I’ve seen has been very effective for people. I’ve gone, I sat in with one of Kathy Martin’s groups out in Phoenix several years ago, and I just thought it seemed like, you know, maybe like some type of support group of any kind where people were, you know, feel traumatized. And I will tell you this, I’ve said this on this show a number of times, if something like this was happening to me, I don’t think I could function in life the rest of my life. I think I would be just absolutely absorbed by it. And that’s happened to people where their life is ruined. They can’t function normally. But the support group is such a tool for people to use because oftentimes people having these experiences can’t talk to their spouses or family members. They can’t talk to fellow workers. They can’t talk to clergy. And so they’re in this bubble. And a lot of times they’ve gone to a psychologist or psychiatrist because they think they’re going crazy. And they find out that they don’t have a psychopathology. They’re not crazy. So then what? What do you do with that? And so that’s why I think that that support group is probably the most effective thing for people because they understand they’re not alone, that there’s other people having similar experiences. Not exactly the same, but similar. And it’s a relief for them to understand and be able to tell their story and ask questions. Right, right. Do you think there’s a percentage of people that well, may not be authentic. Yes. Sure. Absolutely. But they still get support from something else they need? Well, what happens is that it becomes quite evident after doing this for 30 years when a person is blowing smoke up your tailpipe, so to speak. And then, you know, we eventually… tell them that, you know, it’s probably we can’t help you maybe the way that you need to be helped. Yeah. And recommend that, you know, they might seek a different path. And again, you know, we try to be neutral. We try to be open, not judgmental. And there are rules, guidelines when people come into the group. No politics is one, I’m sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. No politics. So it’s been interesting to see how this has evolved and the timing right now as far as what’s going on in the world and with our congressional hearings going on on this subject. It’s like confirmation for these people I saw that object and now we have crashed UFOs. We have bodies. And that body I happen to see, you know, whether it’s, you know, you mentioned earlier, what is it? Is it extraterrestrial? Is it interdimensional? Is it time travelers? Is it our military? It’s probably all the above and anything else you can think of. Right, or couldn’t even think of. Exactly, exactly. And when people go into this group, you said they’re sort of triaged in the beginning? Yes, yes. And then are there different types of abductions or do they seem to have a lot of similarities? Well, as I mentioned earlier, paranormal encompasses a lot, a lot of different things. Although over the years, most of the people that have come to us have been your standard, quote unquote, abductee type of a scenario. So in that regard, yeah, there’s a lot of similarities. But of course, when you dive down deeper into each experience, they’re all different in some subtle ways. you know sure they’re taken through the wall or through the ceiling and they brought on board the craft and they’re laid on a metal table and they’re probed and a lot of that is very similar but then the nuances to it you know is who’s who is actually abducting them what are the experiments being done so it gets into a lot of different things but we do not we do not collect information Oh, that’s nice. Yeah, we do not collect information. This is a safe place for the people in the support group to ask their questions, tell their stories. The only thing that we do occasionally, like I said, we did the omega-3 study that MUFON funded back in 2007. And now we’re in the process of doing the omega-4 study where the first phase is complete and it’s on our website. If you go to our articles and documents section, the omega-3 study, the full study is there as well as the first phase of the omega-4 study where we actually went out to these mental health practitioners and hypnotherapists and got their feedback and now the second phase is where we’re actually going out to the clients of these people and we’re in a process of collecting control group people these are people that have not had an experience because we want to compare that and And so we’ve come up with a whole different cadre of questions, different from a lot of the research that’s been done already. The bottom line in this is we’re trying to come up with the best way to work with people. We found out that QHHT and EDMR are things that hypnotherapists use and seem to be very successful with. So this is something that we want to put out to the mental health community and to the hypnotherapy community so that they can better work with these people and make them aware. And we’re also in a process right now of coming up with continuing education credits for the mental health community and the hypnotherapy community where we can give them information so that they can better work with these kind of people. Wow. I have to tell you a quick story. A very close relative… who is absolutely paranoid, doesn’t even want to talk about anything to do with any of this, contacted me and said, God, I had this very, very vivid dream where I was lifted off of my bed and then I kept going up and then I could see the ceiling coming. Next thing you know, I go through the ceiling and then I go through the roof and then I see a craft up above me and then I’m on a craft. Has anyone else ever talked about something like that? And I said, no. did because they would have been like really really so upset I had I had to say that oh wow yeah because they’re they you know anything that this person says I don’t want to just let you know I don’t want to hear any ufo stories or anything you know because they know I do the show on it yeah sure but they did call me like it was such a vivid dream and I just have to ask you and it’s like I made a decision that I was gonna Well, and that was probably the right decision, because… Some people do not have issues with it, but others do. And those are the people that we run into quite frequently. But the thing that starts to help them is being able to talk to other people and say, tell me about your experience. And it’s, oh, you went through the ceiling too. And then they start to understand that, and these people are all right, You know, they’re communicating, they’re going to work, you know, they’re putting food on a table and doing all that normal stuff that most people do. And that’s big relief in a lot of cases. Sure. One of the questions I wanted to ask you is, do you happen to ask these people about their blood type. There’s been a talk about type O negative, I think it is. Yes, it comes up frequently in the discussions that people have. And that’s the interesting part of the support group is that people will say, hey, I understand that people with RH negative are more susceptible. Oh, is that what it is, RH negative? RH negative. I thought it was type O, RH, yeah. Yeah. And matter of fact, I wrote a book two years ago called The Unknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien Contact. And I talk about blood types and the ones that are more prominent, noted as far as being abducted. And that’s an interesting factor in and of itself. When they say that the Rh factor is a recent addition to the human genome, so to speak, it only came about 40,000 years ago. Why did that happen? What caused that to happen? Of course, I have no clue as far as that’s concerned. I think Nick Redfern might have done a book on that or something. Yeah, there’s been a number of studies along that line. And what do the skeptics say about your work? Well, you know, what’s interesting is the fact that I think probably the one thing that skeptics always come back at me with is the fact that how do you know that these people and you’ve got you kind of asked this question already that these they’re not just telling stories you know it’s the emotion it’s the emotion that that happens when they’re telling their story um so at least like john max said at least they believe it yes yeah that is true that is true and Scientifically, utilizing the scientific method, I don’t know if we’re going to ever figure out what’s really going on. I agree with you. And so you have to go by what is transpiring with these people. It’s affecting them physically, emotionally. And so for them, it’s very real. And what is this reality? You know, we have our reality right here in this room, okay? But what’s going on maybe in this room as well at a different frequency or something, you know? I think of that stuff all the time. Now it’s probably kind of a depressing question, but are there, do experiences, are they known to also like take their own lives? that has happened yeah that’s uh oh yeah and so I’m sure you have support we as far as we have on our website we have on our website a note to it’s the what is it 988 is the international suicide or the us anyway yeah uh hotline for suicide prevention So that’s on our website. And we have people that come in there and say, you know, I just can’t take this anymore. And right away what we do is we say, okay, look, have you gone, are you going to a professional? Yeah, you need tools. Yeah. And so you need to do that right away. Don’t hesitate. And if nothing else, call this 988 number right away. Yeah. Because that’s the only way you can handle it. I mean, we’re physically not there because, I mean, these people are spread out all over the world that we’re working with. Yeah. Yeah. And how do people find out about Opus? Well, basically, you know, we have our internet site. Presence. Yeah. And opusnetwork.org. We’re on YouTube at Opus, separate word network, where I actually do interviews myself with various people. I’ve interviewed Linda Howe. I’ve done Terry Lovelace. I’ve done… number of people and so we’re trying and we’re on Instagram so we’re trying to be on as many platforms social media platforms as possible to get the word out but we’re I mean this is what we’re doing here at the symposium I have a table down there and you know have we have brochures talk about what we do and And I mentioned earlier that we’re in the process of doing the second phase of the omega-4 study where we’re looking for control group people. Matter of fact, people hearing this recording, if they go to our website, there’s a contact button, which is separate from the support button. join that uh control group I’ll put the link below yeah for in the show notes and everything that’d be great yeah so one thing I know will be on people’s mind when they hear this is uh oh what does this cost nothing that’s great I was so hoping you were going to say that so I didn’t have to 170 no I didn’t want to have to edit. Yeah, nothing. We don’t charge for it. We’re a nonprofit. We have a donation button. If you feel compelled to give us some money, we appreciate it, obviously. But there’s no obligation. No obligation. It’s tax deductible. Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been really wonderful. You’re a fine gentleman. And, you know, I mean, it’s really, I think about this all the time, like, I was sitting, like I said, during this symposium when I was the MC, I didn’t know when I went to relax in a hot tub that I’d end up here, when I had my sighting and all that. And it’s so amazing how we all just end up in this, and it’s a good place for me as far as I’m concerned. I’ve met so many wonderful people. One last thing before we go. Sure. your uh the sighting can you describe the craft a little more that you had when you’re 11. do you remember was it a structured craft and did it have a color it was white white it was a white it was glowing it was glowing it was this It was self-illuminated, so to speak. And it was oval in nature. And I saw it only from the side. I didn’t see it from the bottom. And I certainly couldn’t see it from the top. And it just slowly, silently moved over the tree line and just drifted off. Could it have been a balloon? I don’t think so. It had more of a structure to it. Especially if it was illuminated in the interior. Right. Well, you’ve been a real gentleman. Thank you so much. Well, thank you. All right. It’s been great. All right, I’m on with Jeremy Ray. Welcome back, I should say, because you were on five or six years ago? I think so. Time flies by so fast. Doesn’t it? It’s crazy. Yeah, I think it’s actually on hyperdrive now, time. It feels that way. Years are going by like weeks for me. Last Christmas, I swear, when I was pulling down a tree, I was like, babe, didn’t we put this tree, didn’t we just do this a month ago? That’s what it felt like, so… Well, you know, here it is. At July 4th, Donna went into a, I think it was a Marshalls or something. They had Halloween decorations already out. I mean, that’s really crazy. That is crazy. And they’re for next year. That’s a joke. Okay, thank God. And when we were talking in the lobby, there was a discussion of, Manipulation of time. And that’s something I think we should talk a little, jump into a little bit. But first of all, Jeremy Ray, you were on, you’ve been in a few TV programs. People know you from that. Yes, sir. But was it Hang of One you were in? Yeah. I mean, there’s a bunch I can’t remember, but Hangar 1, the UFO Files, was like the big one. Ancient Aliens. There’s another show called Alaska Triangle that’s on the Travel Channel. That was good. And then there’s a bunch of other shows that technically I didn’t do, but there was a lot of material from Hangar 1 that they never made it, and they took… things from it and created different shows with it. Oh, I see. They took the stuff that was never used. Yeah, there’s about nine different brand new shows, but it was from old footage from Hangar One. Well, I hope you… No, I’m not an actor, so I don’t get paid royalties or anything like that. That’s too bad. I just show up and sit in a chair and do my part, and then that’s it. That’s good that the material’s getting out there so other people can… get educated on it or be aware. Yeah. So you’ve been at this a long time. Why don’t we talk about that? Sure. Uh, you were in the military. Yeah. And, um, I get, I always ask this question and I know I asked, I must’ve asked you before, but what started your interest? Oh, well, um, I, I would, I wouldn’t say I didn’t, I didn’t believe in UFOs, but it wasn’t on my radar until I had a sighting and that one day changed my entire life. That one moment, It’s almost like, I know it sounds a little extreme, but the old Jeremy Ray died that day. We call it a move on reality transformation. And that is true. My whole reality flipped upside down. I started questioning everything. I’m not saying I was enlightened, but things that are not supposed to exist all of a sudden. And we’re talking a long time ago where UFOs were available. taboo subject. Yeah. And of course, yeah, that and I had a consciousness connection to to the craft that was above my head. So it was. How old were you? I was, I think, 17, 17 or 18 years old. Let’s go through what exactly happened. Sure. One of my buddies, I was at a military school, and I came home. The town’s called Victoria, Texas. And I came home for spring break, and one of my buddies, I didn’t have a driver’s license, but he had a pickup truck, and we were going to go down to South Padre Island. and a party that I was so excited about this. So I was, we, he lived in the same neighborhood with me and I was walking around the neighborhood to, to get to his house. Then when I came around a corner, um, I saw this light was about a hundred at the maximum, a hundred feet off the ground to telephone pole level. And I stood at, I stared at it for about five minutes. I couldn’t figure out what it was. It was brighter than the sun. Um, It was about three o’clock in the afternoon. I remember the date, March the 20th, 1996. And so I had the sun beaming in my eyes, but I also had this object right under the sun. And the object was brighter than the sun, but it didn’t hurt my eyes to look at it. And so it just didn’t seem like it belonged there. About five minutes me standing there, I figured, well, I need an adult or a grownup to tell me what this is. So I walked across the street didn’t know this neighbor, rang the doorbell. He lived about 10 houses down. I’ve seen the guy mow his yard, but I’d never met him. And I introduced myself, very like, hi, I’m Jeremy Ram, your neighbor down the street. I just happened to be walking through the neighborhood and I see this light in the sky and I can’t figure out what it is. And I was hoping, sir, maybe you could tell me what this is. And so he… He didn’t have a shirt on. I obviously disturbed him or something, but he comes out. He had an awning, so he couldn’t see. I was trying to point to where it was at, and he saw it and looked at me and said, Holy Mary, Mother of God, and he ran inside the house. I was like, whoa. I did not expect that. I was like, I’ll try a different neighbor. So I walked halfway down. He never came back out? No, he did. It was just a quick response where he was like, holy Mary, Mother of God. And then he just forgot that I was there and he beelined it to the house. So I decided I’ll just get the next neighbor. I need somebody to tell me what this is before I continue to move on because I’ve never seen anything like this. It was a bright, light neighborhood. that was the best way to describe it is if you’re in a parking lot and you see the sun bouncing off the chrome of a bumper. You know how it follows you when you look at it? That’s what it looked like, a big bright with the, you know, like it’s bright like this and then you had it. like a, I don’t know, like string or just starts to thin out and it becomes more transparent. Sunburst type of thing, yeah. So I got halfway down the sidewalk and I hear the door of his house opening up and he comes out, he’s got a shirt on and he’s got sunglasses and he’s got a camera and he’s got his wife with him. And then I was like, okay, all right. I just turned right back around and walked back and I go, so I guess this is something special. He was like, oh yeah. And I was like, well, do you think it’s? And I started running through. You know, I even said, do you think it’s a kite? Because maybe it could have been, you know, something reflecting and we just can’t see. And he was like, no, no, no. And I was like, well, I can’t see it because the sun’s hitting me in the face. So I’m going to try to get under it. And I’ll tell you what I see or get behind it. Because it was right hovering low. I could see that I can go around it. So I started to walk towards it. I’m looking right at the object. And he’s saying it’s moving away from me. moving away from you and I’m arguing with them saying no it didn’t it’s right there it’s not moving and keep in mind it’s a blue sky no clouds in the object and when you’re walking you’re looking at it it it was staying with me with my pace so it looked like it was right there but I just wasn’t getting to it and I and I didn’t believe that you know so I was arguing with him his wife and then we’re like no no no it’s moving and so I was like okay well I can’t get to it so I just turned around started walking back and they’re like, it’s following you. And I’m looking at it and I’m backing up and I’m like, no, it isn’t. I stopped. I don’t see it moving. I start backing up. I don’t see it moving because it’s always at the exact same spot. But keep in mind, they were standing still. So they’re seeing it move wherever I was moving. So I kind of chuckled and I was like, How about I walk past you guys, okay? Y’all stay still. And when the object comes over your head, tell me what you see, right? So I started to walk and it started coming and it stopped before it went over their head. So I stood next to Dick. His name is Dick. And I stood next to him and I said, you got to take a picture? He said, oh yeah, let’s take a picture. So he winded up because we didn’t have cell phones back in, picture phones back in 1996. Six. So anyway, as soon as he brought the camera up to take a picture, the sun was right here. I’m going to borrow this pen. The object was right here, and it shot up into the sun. I mean, I watched it. That’s the first time I saw it move. For me, that’s the first time I saw it move. And it went like that. No sound. Right in front of the sun. Right in front of the sun. And I could see a little bit of the object from the left and right barely peeking in. And at that moment, we all… all our mouths, we were gaping, and we knew that this is under some kind of intelligent control. So I’m thinking natural phenomenon, like a sun dog, which I didn’t know what a sun dog was back then, but I was thinking there’s gotta be a reasonable explanation for it. It looked like it didn’t belong there. It really looked like some cheap Star Trek special effects. It really just… But you said you had some type of connection? Yes, yes. Yes, sir. I’m going to get to that part. Is that hard to talk about? I don’t have the right kind of wording, so I’ll do my best. And I’ve had 20 years to come up with the right wording. And I still, I never feel like it does justice. It’s kind of like trying to describe a a color that you’ve never seen before. Good luck, right? But yeah, so during that moment, it shot up, and I told Dick to put the… That’s when I had it, is right in that moment. I had that, like… I felt like… put the camera down. And so I told Dick, put the camera down. As soon as he put the camera down, the object came back to the exact position. Wow. So this thing hung around for about 15 minutes. I’ll speed it up. There’s a few more. But I was able to flank it, go around and I was in Mrs. Ladwick’s yard and I rang her doorbell, got her out and She freaked out. I was trying to explain to her what we think this is. And she said, oh my God. And she walked straight towards it. And when she got under it, that’s when it left. And what I saw was everybody’s shadows get darker. And I looked up, and if you took a rubber band and cut it and held one end to the other, and we both let go of it at the same time, that’s how it looked when it took off. I saw purple, pink, and blue scales, like scales of a snake. So this thing was like perfectly straight with the light in the middle. But when this thing took off, it was like, boom, it was gone. And when it was doing this maneuver, I saw colors like flash, flash, flash, like a bright, we didn’t have LEDs back then, but it would be equivalent to that. And I can’t tell you what direction it went. But Mrs. Ladwick was blinded. She said it was very similar if you pushed on your eyes really hard and you had that black fuzz. And she had to take a knee. And we were blown away by it. I felt… So without me getting too crazy on it, I felt like when I told Dick to put the camera down, I was having a… conscious telepathic communication. And it was, it didn’t care about them. This is what Dick said. It didn’t care about us, only cared about you. When you moved, it moved, you know? And we’ve had plenty of time to discuss this over the event. But yeah, that one day changed my entire life. I didn’t even go down to South Padre Island. I didn’t even go over to my friend’s house. I didn’t care about chasing the ladies or trying to score as an underage to get some beer. All that didn’t matter anymore. But keep in mind, I was in military school, locked up kinda, and I was looking forward to this. I mean, having some freedom. And then this event happens and stuff for a 17 year old kid that you would think is super important, it’s out the window didn’t matter anymore nolan void I i was that that one day I knew that this was this is what I’m going to be doing wow I know I i it started out with me like well when I get no one’s going to believe me because I’m a kid but when I get older I’m going to stand in the auditorium and I’m going to tell people what I saw I don’t care about rep a reputation or because everything back then it was a very taboo subject everybody made fun of you you couldn’t nobody would take you seriously so I just remembered that when I was in military school I go one day I’m gonna I’m gonna get up and I’m gonna tell people about what happened because whether people don’t believe it or not I thought that was so important I thought I won the lotto I didn’t know other people around the world see the same things that I saw I had this is like right when I first stepped into it and then started reading a lot of books um was in the military, saw another UFO, and then that was it for me. I was like, I’m gonna find out how to get involved in this. I found MUFON when I was in college and the rest is history. Been with them for 18 years. Wow. So what was the second one like? Was it during an operation or something? Yes, sir. Yeah, we were in Kosovo outside of Pristina. that we had a little outpost. And this is strange because I was on guard, I think it was like 3 in the morning, and I had another guy. And we had this basketball-sized red UFO just come hover directly over our outpost. And I had a really lazy lieutenant. I’m not going to say bad words, but I could use it. He wasn’t a good lieutenant, all right? And we were sitting here like, should we wake him up? Should we not? You know he’s not going to do anything, you know? And I was like, nah, we’re going to wake him up. And I woke him up and said, hey, sir, we’ve got a UFO. I just basically straight up told him. And he was like, all right, well. report to the Italian area and let them know what you saw. And of course, I’m intimidated. I’m private. I’m like, no, sir. He got out. He radioed the Italian area. So it reported it. So to me… So he did see it? No, he didn’t see it. By the time we went in, it was only there for a little bit and then it zipped off. By the time I woke him up, he reported it. The next following day, instead of us all talking about it, what happened that night? We got mortar attacked. So when we got mortar attacked, Everybody forgot about the UFO. Yeah. Even me. Yeah. Of course, yeah. So… Fearing for your life, basically. Yeah, we almost got killed. I almost got killed. A bunch of us did. I was very lucky. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like… There is an angel watching over me. Wow, that’s crazy. So, yeah, I mean, the military encounters, you know, it seems like that’s what the government has an interest in and no other. But then… When you hear about the Sean Kirkpatrick and what he was involved in, and he says that he’s heard from no firsthand witnesses. And I think that is just… No, it’s a lie. I have to call it a lie. I mean, what else would you call it? Because I know, personally know, people that, you know, Mario Woods, for one. Four hours and 19 minutes, he told me. You know, he did his testimony. And they say they haven’t heard from, I mean, that’s a first-hand witness. I kind of feel like if I could talk to Mr. Patrick, it would be like… I got a whole list for you, but I’m pretty sure you’re not going to interview him. You’re not even trying. I don’t even feel like it. But no, there’s plenty of… Well, we’ll see who takes over in the permanent position of what he did. Maybe they’ll… I mean, he fibbed about being in that Skinwalker Ranch meeting, and then he got busted because someone had a camera. Yeah, picture, right? Brandon Fugel shared the picture. Oh, that’s right. That’s right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s something. So, wow, in all your… you started with MUFON you know a good while ago yes sir and you’ve done a lot of different things with MUFON right yes sir but yeah it’s a lot it seems like I’ve done a lot when it’s stretched out over that long but uh I think probably one of the coolest biggest thing for me and MUFON was the Bigelow Star team I was a part of that when Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies Yep. Came in, started funding move on, um, for a year. I remember that the project was called star impact project and I was on the team and it was awesome. So, uh, there was, it basically showed that move on was very capable, especially when we have funding. to deploy anywhere in the United States in less than 24 hours to get to a site. I’ve always wondered how J. Allen Hynek seemed to be able to do that on his own after he was out of Project Blue Book. I’ve heard stories that he would show up somewhere the next day. And, you know, I mean, who is funding him? Does anyone even know? I don’t know, but have you heard a story about the project Blue Book Reports where you had one that was for the public and one that was for… So maybe he was getting… I mean, obviously, it does cost money to hop on a plane and get somewhere really quick. And then, of course, the intel… uh, how connected you are. I mean, I, I can get on social media and hear something that move on. Hasn’t told me yet, you know, or, or, or you have, or, but then also vice versa. I might hear something from a prominent UFO investigator and an event that happened and several weeks go by and all of a sudden, boom, it’s mainstream media or, you know what I’m talking about? So maybe that’s, he, he had good connections and, uh, Had money to get there or maybe, you know, maybe? Yeah, I’m sorry. No, no, go ahead. No, not just him. I mean, I was just thinking about, you know, my friend, good friend, we miss him today, Lee Spiegel. Yes. You know, he, back in 78, I think it was, or 77, one or the other, Heineck called him and said, can you get on a plane and get down to North Carolina? So somehow someone was funding them. Maybe someone that’s listening to the show knows all about it. Probably. I just haven’t heard exactly how they did that. No, but he was around. He was around all the way. And Lee Spiegel, God bless his soul. I never got a chance to meet Lee. But my state director, Katie, did a lot of interviews with him when he was in his hospice or rest home thing that he was at. A lot of his work, a lot of his crash retrieval work, was used in the TV show Hangar One. We used a lot of his write-ups and stuff. So many crashes. So many. Yeah. That’s a big… It always seems like it’s going to be a big controversy whether people… Because, I mean, the first thing the skeptic will say, all right, so this thing got here, you know, however it got here, you know, from light years away or wherever it came from. And it crashed. That’s so ridiculous. So that’s what a skeptic will say to you. It could be a Trojan horse. It could be a lot of things. Yeah. I mean, I mentioned downstairs when we were talking, Jonathan Wigand in Peru crashed whatever it was that he saw wedged into the rocks. And he claims it looks like it got hit by a Hawk-something missile. He looked at other… craft you know airplanes that were hit by a hawk missile and they had the same type of damage so he thinks it was actually hit by a missile I forget what it’s called exactly but it has like a scattershot missile okay some type of uh I remember one time in kosovo um air force where somebody used a cruise missile to take out a barracks and and then I was there after the aftermath and I saw it looked very similar like the pentagon it had a hole yeah and then inside everything kind of blew up um and uh I guess I mean that would you would think if they could travel vast distances and through all this you know um that that we shouldn’t be able to have the capability to shoot them down but I’ve also heard it uh Through the grapevine, you know, UFO lore, I wasn’t there, but they have a crashed UFO at Area 51 that has a hole in it. It looks like it was shot down by something. I don’t know if it was UFOs fighting UFOs or did we shoot them down, but, you know. I think they’d have a force field. Right, some kind of force field around it. Or something. Shields or something. Yeah. But I mean, I’m just speculating. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I mean, you just wonder what would make them crash. Just maybe they encounter the unknown that they weren’t expecting. You know, people have opined that it could be something like, you know, radar could interfere with some navigation or whatever. It’s all just, you know, speculation. Yes, sir. There’s something that seems to, if there’s truly crashes, there’s something that is either taking them down or something they encounter. Well, I look at it this way. If they could travel through space, they definitely can travel underwater. And if they want to, this whole planet’s full of water majority of it that’s where their terrain would be at and they can easily make a home deep underground because we deep underwater because we can’t even get down there anyway yeah that would be the safest bet now it would make more sense if ets weren’t out coming from out there they actually live here and then yeah they crash that would probably make more sense wouldn’t it yeah so maybe there’s a continent or somewhere uh somewhere underwater where they They make mistakes just like we do. Who knows? I mean, we can always speculate on it, but if there is, well, there are crashed UFOs, but the question is, like, how many times has this happened? Are we the ones causing them to crash because we’re trying to get that tech so we set up traps and catch them? You know, I mean, I’m just speculating. Or… A Trojan horse, you know. I hope not. I hope not. Yeah. But, you know, here’s another thing. And it’s just an opinion I’m asking. You know, if life is abundant out there and we’re not an exception of any kind, Why would we be so special? Okay. Do we go up to an ant bed and bring it a Twinkie and go, give this to your queen. Here’s some awesome technology. We don’t even do that. We don’t even pull off the right side of the road and talk to deer. I might. I talk to deer. I yell, get out of the road. but uh yeah no I i think I would say that you’re I would probably my best guess would be that they’re indifferent they’re just doing what they need to do and if you interfere with their mission like send a fighter jet up there you might get spanked or something but no um they’re the big they’re the ones that are the secret keepers yeah because if they wanted to let us know they could You know, park right there and not leave. Yeah, and then when I bring up this topic, I have to bring up something that a lot of people ask me. Why on earth would they have lights on their craft? Yeah, why do they use lights? Is it because they want us to see them? Is it something… I would say that the lights, this is just my guess, is rare. You think there’s much more of them out there without lights? Invisible. Because Raytheon is, you can look this up, Raytheon has a special type of camera that’s mounted on the fighter jets that are able to detect invisible UFOs. So, yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised. Something different than the FLIR? This is something new, Raytheon? Oh yeah, it was something that they had on their website, that they have special cameras that could detect, you know, invisible. Yeah, I mean we only see a certain amount of spectrum. So with our five sensors, that’s the best way, you know, but then we have equipment that can kind of help extend our range on sensing, and that would be one, is that camera. But I would say that they’re up there all the time and they’re invisible. We don’t see them. Um, so the question with the lights at nighttime or something like that, it would it be that they, I don’t know, that is such a good question because if you’re trying to conceal yourself, you wouldn’t want to be like, Hey, I’m over here. Yeah. You also wouldn’t want to be, Hey, I’m over here. You guys can’t do anything about it anyway. Maybe they’re just indifferent. They just don’t care if they’re seen or not. That kind of makes sense to me. Best guess. There’s probably something else to it. And I kind of say a lot similar. Like I think there’s stuff going on around us that we have absolutely no idea about. And I do believe that. Me too. Hidden in plain sight. It might be right in front of our face. We just don’t know. And then, of course, people want to know, well, the three questions and the last one, what do they want? Why are they here? That type of thing. And that’s another big puzzle. The agenda, if there is one. My questions are, who are we? I mean, who are we? Why are we here? What is this place? I feel like if we could figure out those three questions, we might be able to answer a lot of questions. I can give you many examples. Let’s say we’re in a matrix. Who cares about UFOs? We’re wasting our time studying a program that’s out there flying around. We don’t have the answers. That’s what makes life interesting. There’s so many mysteries. He wanted to talk about that time. Yeah, I wanted to talk to him. It’s funny you mentioned the Matrix because one of the people I interviewed, Albert Wayne, was I think it’s one of the best interviews I’ve ever done about someone who had an encounter. He basically said that when this craft It was across the road. And then he said, and then like nothing happened, all of a sudden it’s right overhead. And he says, and do you know in the Matrix when everyone’s like moving slow? And he actually said, here’s just someone who he’s not in the UFO circuit or anything like that. He said he had an unusual sighting when he was 17. And, you know, I listened to it and I said, oh, wow, this is really something. And he said it seemed like time had slowed down. And then he said it seemed like there was some type of manipulation of time. And I think that would solve a lot of problems, a lot of people’s encounters that they talk about. it’s basically time dilation so if you you see you got grass growing you don’t see the grass growing but if you put a camera on it and you’ll see that yeah it’s very active so there’s like some kind of buffer zone uh or if the buffer if you look up in the ufo encyclopedia all the way to the back there’s a thing called oz phenomenon or Oz factor. I can’t remember, but outer zone kind of thing. So somewhere around the UFO, supposedly UFO controls its own space time. And when you get close to the UFO, you might, and even if you’re touching it, you might think you’re only there for 15 seconds to a minute, but everybody’s looking for you. You’ve been missing for hours. And we would call that missing time. But really, um, you were there for two minutes, you stepped outside of that buffer zone. And now everybody’s like, where the hell were you? You’ve been missing for, and then of course we jumped to the collision. I was abducted. Now you just got too close to where time’s different here and different there. To travel through space to vast distance, vast distances, you need to have a time machine because But you just need to be able to manipulate time and space and hop from point A to point B. That would be the most effective way of doing it. If you and me wanted to go to Alpha Centauri, not to mention all the fuel that we’d have to drag behind us, you and me ain’t going to make it. We’d have to start a family. Have a whole solar system full of fuel. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. But the way these guys… There’s just so many stories about soldiers firing on UFOs and the, and our ammo would turn around and go back to us. Uh, that could be something, you know, just imagine if you had a pause button, right. And you’re, you come to a planet and all of a sudden the species is coming at you and you pause it and you got time to analyze and what maneuver you want to do or whatever. But for us, it’s instant, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, I would even speculate that, let’s say you lived in the house that you were born your whole life. I’ll just put it that way. And a UFO could hover above your house. That’s just my guess. Let’s say when you’re 15 and rewind and look at you when you’re young and forward like a VCR. You know, just look. There’s actually a MUFON case where… where these people saw a UFO over a house in a neighborhood. They were blown away by this massive UFO shining a light down on this house. Well, they went back out there the next day and the house wasn’t there. It wasn’t there, and they know this is the street they drove on. They knew it was right here. The house wasn’t there. Fifteen years later, the house gets built, and it’s the exact same house that they saw many years ago. That’s freaky. Yes, sir. Wow. Yeah, I mean, there’s many weird stories like that, but that’s one. And we actually talked about that on the Hanger one, the UFO files, I think. I can’t remember what episode. UFO superpowers, the capabilities of what UFOs can do, and that was one example. Wow. Wow. Yes, sir. Yeah, I mean, the time manipulation does seem to fit in a lot of cases, especially, like you said, in the missing time instances where, you know, perhaps… You know, the one thing I think is weird also, let’s bring Travis Walton into this whole thing. You know, he’s… He’s gone all that time. He doesn’t think it’s any time at all. And his brother said, well, feel your beard, the growth on your chin. That’s four-day growth, that type of thing. But he didn’t feel like it was any time at all. I think I never saw it as a time dilation with him. I’ve followed Travis really closely for over the years. I think they, my best guess is they probably accidentally killed them, and then they took them, got them fixed, and brought them back. Could be. Because think about my, my, my… I was trying to get under it the whole time. I was pulling a Travis Walton. I was trying to get under it. Okay. And it backed away. Right. And then it, when I moved forward, you know, so it, and even Mrs. Latimer, it, whatever we did, it was made sure that we can never get under it. So there’s gotta be something that might be harmful. Um, that’s under there. But, uh, I don’t think it was a rescue. Yeah. Travis was I mean, the guys, of course, he’s not going to ruin it. All he knows is he felt an incredible pain when he was on the craft, but his men saw him. They thought he was dead. They left him. They took off, and they say he’s, you know. But Travis was taken on board a… another larger ship and two beings that look human a little bit bigger norad nor like a swedish right with a tight skin suit he thought they were nasa and they had they actually had a mask on I believe and he was having a hard time breathing right he was yeah and they put him to sleep and uh next thing you know he’s waking up on the side of the road and he sees the ufo leaving and then he uh stumbled to a phone booth and called his brother didn’t know he was gone for for four days, but yeah, that’s Travis experiences. He’s able to retain all his memories. I wouldn’t call it missing time. I would say he was unconscious. You know, like if you got hit in a car wreck and you wake up in the hospital, you’re like, where am I? I was like, yeah, you were, You were out for a week. Welcome back. It only felt like a second. Yeah, sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But yes, there are other cases of missing time. I think that instead of calling it missing time, we should call it time dilation. It’s more scientific, you know. so what do you we’ll just wrap this up how do you feel things someone called me another researcher called me UFO researcher well known I’m just not going to say his name because I don’t know but he said Where do you think things are going right now? That’s what he said to me. And I said, well, you know, I got to think about this for a minute, you know, because so many times I like to be an optimist and think that we’re like moving the needle ahead. And then I don’t I don’t really know. what to think you know I mean exactly what to think and but I feel like we we’ve had some really good momentum and but I think it’s kind of sort of planing out right now but what are your thoughts on where things are I think actually there was a time where I was like they’re never going to disclose I don’t feel that way now I do think that why now is the question we should be asking is why now? Why are you guys pushing the envelope? Yeah. So for people like you and me, we’re already ready for it. You can show us the information. We’re not going to trip. We’re going to find it very interesting. There’s a lot of people out there that this doesn’t come across their radar. They don’t want to know about it. They don’t care. And I think in a way… Um, this is for them. It’s really not for us. It’s cool to hear the stories, but this is for them to the drip, drip, drip. Yeah. So you don’t pull the rug out from everybody. They might have to do this because maybe they know in a couple of years that something is going to happen. And instead of having catastrophic disclosure, it’s better to, you know, kind of let people know, Hey, this has been going on. We have a history of it. We’ve got people in Congress talking about it. Um, But they haven’t really said that it’s 100% fact, right? You have groups that don’t want this information out. You have groups that want this information out. So it’s kind of cool watching this tug of war. Like Commander Fravor, or actually, Let me back up. I know there’s a line of whistleblowers through aerospace communities that are ready to come forward and tell their stories. They just need to get the green light so they don’t get thrown in prison or lose their job or their security clearance and things like that. That’ll be a great disclosure, but still, it’s still talking heads. It’s great that we got all these people talking and sharing ideas, but my idea of disclosure is a little bit more extreme. It’s where you get to hold the metal urging in your hands you get the experience for yourself. I do believe we’ll have that in our lifetime. I think probably sooner than we’ll be ready for it. Because this whole world right now, not just UFOs, there’s just so much going on that even if you threw in the alien card, people would be interested and they’d flip the channel. I mean, it’s a total… I’ve said that a number of times, yeah, or something similar. So it would be a perfect time to kind of But the cat’s already out of the bag. I’ve had people argue with me and say, there’s nothing new under the sun. This is the same thing as Donald Key Holden. Nah. No, this is different. You’ve got guys that are coming up saying, I know where the crash at Trudeau is at, where the UFOs are at, where it’s being studied. I know the locations. We’d have to talk to Skiff about it. You know, that kind of stuff. Talking to Congress. And then, not to mention that, but you’ve got bodies. Yeah, that’s good stuff. So bring those congressmen in. get them to look at it. Um, let’s get the, we can get the ball rolling, but, um, it’s rolling. It’s just, he’s got to have patience for you and me. We’re ready for it. But there’s, like I said, this is not just for America is for mankind and for the whole world to kind of, you know, acclimate to this idea, which is, is nothing new. It’s been around for a long time, but like, you know, I kind of feel like that’s what it is. It’s not a dog and pony show, but it’s more like, um, I don’t know how the government’s going to, I’m pretty sure they have a plan. We can kind of speculate how they’re going to do it, but I do think disclosure is going to happen. I really do in our lifetime. And what I mean is by holding, told them the material and totally diving into it and not being censored on, Oh, you’re not allowed to know that, you know? Yeah. Hopefully we can. you want to know here’s the folder and here’s all the files have at it yeah we’re owed that and then I think we are owed that and I think we’re also owed the tech that’s been locked up for so long you know it would be so beneficial for humanity new propulsion systems probably awesome new medical technology yeah things that we’ve learned from the crash things that we’ve re-engineered If we can. Well, if you listen to Colonel Corso, integrated computer chips, fiber optics, Dell technology, all this kind of stuff, he says the ideas came from Roswell. We looked at what they had and tried to figure out how we could make it work. And I think it could catapult us, our whole world. If we had some alien tech and we could get 100, maybe 200 years, maybe 1,000 years advanced overnight, it would be like a quantum leap. Unless we killed ourselves with it. Well, we’re going to have to somehow… I guess you can say spiritually evolved to love each other. I mean, we’re kind of… Yeah. We’re in a tough spot, a bottleneck. Yes, sir. Yeah. Great to talk to you. Really great conversation. Always. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jeremy. Take care. You too. All right. So thank you all for watching tonight. Thanks so much. We’ll be back next week with Ariel Elizabeth and Chris Devine. I forgot to announce that Robert Whitman is going to be on the Everything Else show this Thursday night. He is a former FBI agent. art crime and recovery person. And he was undercover all around the world, buying stolen art and pretending, you know, he was like a professor and all these different things. A fascinating guy. I’ve talked to him before. So don’t miss that. That’s coming up on Thursday night. I know it’s a very different show than UFOs, but it should be still very interesting. We’ll see you next week. And remember to keep your eyes to the sky.